Good People, Cool Things
Good People, Cool Things

Episode 64 · 1 year ago

64: Migrating Butterflies and Bike Rides with Sara Dykman

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Sara Dykman is the founder of beyondabook.org, creating and encouraging lifelong learners and curious people. She's had tons of cool adventures, like walking from Mexico to Canada, canoeing the Missouri River from source to sea, and cycling over 80,000 miles across North and South America.

Put simply, Sara likes to dream big—and encourages other people to do the same. After listening to this episode, you'll want to take on the world and see all it has to offer!

Good people cool things as a podcast feature and conversations with entrepreneurs, writers, musicians and other creatives. Get inspired by their stories to do your own cool thing, and here's your host, Joey held. Welcome to good people, cool things. Today's guest is going on a journey. She's taken US along with her and all of the cool stops and people she found along the way. She is Sarah Dykeman, the founder of beyond a book, an adventure at linked education project connecting real time adventures to classrooms and giving all kinds of fun learning opportunities for students to explore their planet. Beyond a book is on their fourth project, called Butterbike, and Sarah has channeled that into bicycling with butterflies. My tenzero two hundred and one mile journey following the monarch migration. Tenzero two hundred one miles. That's a lot. I mean that's that's probably the understatement of the year, but that's that's a lot to ride. Sarah Road from Mexico to Canada and all the way back and had so many fun adventures along the way. We're talking about some of them. Her best meal along the trip, what it's like getting a flat tire while you're doing this, all of the Awesome Monarch Adventures and stories that she has along the way, and somebody good reminders in here to take a look around you and really experience what you're seeing. Don't just see it but like embrace it. And I know as soon as I'm done recording this editing this episode, I'm heading outside and it's going to be fantastic, it's going to be glorious and it's going to be wonderful and I encourage all of you to do the same. If you like to support good people cool things, you can head on over to the merch shop, good people cool thingscom shop. You can also sponsor the podcast, send an email to joey at good people cool thingscom and reach all kinds of fantastic people with your message. Get into some social action, some email newsletters. And, speaking of social you can follow good people cool things at GPCT podcast on facebook, twitter and instagram. Always love hearing from you and sharing what you have to say. For now, let's hop into this conversation with Sarah. For people who don't know who you are, can you give us your elevator pitch, but can you also share what kind of elevator we're riding on while you're telling us about yourself? Oh boy, an elevator. I haven't been on an elevator and Gosh years, I have to say. So I would. I don't have a lot of experience, but I'll say a normal elevator perfect, perfect, maybe in like a museum or something, but my elevator pitch is that my name is Sarah and I rode my bicycle following the monarch migration from Mexico to Canada and back, and the goal was to be a voice for the monarch. And about halfway through roo I realized I had a lot to say and people wanted to listen. So...

I wrote a book called Bicycling with butterflies Ding. I love what I love when the sound effects get thrown into it's always a good touch. That was the elevator. I actually have a pretty hilarious elevator story from my trip. So I navigated from Mexico to Canada. I found these amazing dirt roads. I was in the middle of nowhere often and and then I make it to New York City and I stay with this this wonderful couple. I actually met the woman her name's Erica. I met her in Mexico. She was a tourist visiting as well, and she said, uh, when you get to New York City, you should she should stay with me, and I think she kind of invited me, only half asking or half a half, half thinking I'd actually show up. But there I was. I made it, and then one day I was like I'm gonna I'm going to brave New York City, just with it, like by the subway, and I leave my bike in her apartment and I take off and the adventure and unfolds and then on my way home, I someone holds the door open for me so I don't have to use a key to get into her building, and then I get an elevator and I go to the thirty second floor and I'm walking to her apartment and the key doesn't fit, and that's when I realized I had just gone completely to the wrong building, like I was in the wrong building, and I thought, wow, I can follow monarchs tenzero miles, but I can not navigate New York City. I as someone who has also gotten lost within New York City, I empathize completely with that. So, going way back to the beginning, because I'm sure this wasn't like an impromptu hey, I'm just going to do this. There's certainly some foundation there beforehand and a fondness and interest in butterflies and monarchs and they're their migration patterns through that. So what was the Firstt Time? We were like wait, I want to learn more about this, like this is super cool. I have always been fascinated by animals. I actually studied wildlife biology at college and I've just always been interested in the little secrets, so all and all the animals that are often overlooked. So my favorite animal is the frog. Actually, I love frogs and snakes and bugs and all the all those type of creatures. And the idea to follow the monarch actually started as an idea to just visit the monarchs. I was actually biking across Mexico with a friend and we were going to go see the monarchs where they overwinner but the timing was wrong and they live about tenzero feet above sea level. The monarchs to do in the winter. So we looked at our map and we thought, I don't think we want to bike up a mountain if the monarchs probably won't be there. So we kind of skirted around the area, but I kind of I just wanted to see the monarchs and stead I thought I'm going to return and somehow, over the course of about two years of the idea kind of just sitting with me and it turned from an idea to go visit the monarchs to ride...

...my bike and follow them and and I think a large part of that kind of transition from a visit to a long trip was learning a little bit about more about them, and and they just kept calling, calling to me. And one of the things I do on my adventures as I try and connect to schools, but with presentations and videos, and I found out that the monarch was already in schools. People are, excuse me, teachers are using them to teach about science and metamorphosis and to grow gardens and etc. Etc. And so that was like an obvious like whoa look this is, this is a good opportunity. And then I also learned that the monarchs are suffering serious declines and I thought, well, this could be my way to help, this could be my way to kind of shine a spotlight on on this important creature and have fun doing it. Absolutely was the the biking element to it were you are ready a an avid bike rider. That would would go on, you know, hundred mile trips at a time. Yes, by when, after before my butterfly trip, rewinding, I did a trip from from Bolivia and South America to Texas. That was a tenzero mile trip with a friend. That took about a year. And then before that I did a trip with three friends from college and sometimes four friends in the summer and our goal was to bike to every state but Hawaii the ever United States and so and that took I took about a year as well. And I've done a few other a little multi month trips, but by canoe and on foot as well. So I was I knew actually that I could, I could do the miles and I knew I was I knew kind of what I was getting myself into, but I learned so much about the monarch and for me, the what I learned and the biggest surprise was that there was just this amazing network of people that invited me in and there's this is this team taking care of the monarch and they just adopted me and took care of me and made my trip way, way bigger than I was expecting it to be super cool. I love stories like that of just people being like so into the cause and what you're doing and just kind of like you're saying, like adopting you is one of their own, and it's so awesome to say. Yeah, it's funny, because so my trip was about following the monarchs and in a lot of ways I think the monarch and I actually did have a really similar experience. And I look at all the places I stayed and I'm inside getting fed these delicious meals and I'm getting a shower and a place you know and a comfy bed for the night, and then I look out the window and it's like, Oh, and these are the people with with gardens in their front yard and they're feeding the monarchs. And so I think the monarchs and I leave those places just with some relief and gratitude and and the more places like that, the easier the monarch trip will be and easier my trip was. So I'm just so, just so thankful for their support and logistics wise, because I would like to think by of myself as a little bit...

...of a planner on trips. I'm not. I'm not mapping out every single step of the way but, you know, knowing lodging and and if there's tours or anything, planning that ahead of time. Did you have sort of, I guess, goals, maybe it's the the right word, of where you wanted to be at certain points of the trip? Or was it this is my target, but if I, you know, if I'm still feeling good, I'll go past it or if I, you know, it's a a hotter day or something like, maybe maybe I'll chill and hang back a little bit. Right. I had a very tentative big picture. So I like I knew I wanted to be in Mexico and I wanted to leave in March and I knew I wanted to be in Canada in the summertime and I knew I wanted to try and get back to Mexico by November when the monarchs arrive. And then I had as my trip went people heard about me and they would invite me to do presentations and so at some point it would be like, oh, in five hundred miles, I need to be in Kansas City on I forgot whatever day I was in Kansas City for this presentation, and so then I'd have to start kind of planning a lot. I had to start kind of paying attention to the miles a little bit more. But from the daytoday aspect, I would often wake up in the morning with no idea where I was going to go. And you're right, it would depend on on the wind, more type, less temperature and more on the wind. So if I had a rip and Tail Wind, I could go twenty miles an hour all day and just I wouldn't want to stop. And then other days the wind would be in my face and you could be in like your smallest you're your easiest gear, with your head down, charging into the wind and you'd look at your little speedometer telling you the health faster going and it would just say like a heartbreaking like six miles an hour, and you could do that all day. So I paid attention to the wind and because my so I have a bike that's an old beater, beat up mountain bike, and I had paniers on it or bike bags. In fact, my rear bags are made from old kitty letter buckets and in those bags I carried everything I needed so that I could eat when I was hungry and sleep when I was tired, and I did a lot of people cycle tourists often call it gorilla camping. It's just where you find a spot off the road and it's it's not an official camp spot, but it's a piece of earth that's usually flat. Hopefully that can be be your home for the night. Very nice fairness. Also just I'm always so impressed, just on the packing side of things, on this as well, of how how compact you can get things in that still, like you're saying, keep you fatting and give you a place to sleep. That's fantastic. And so I've done trips by backpacking trips as well, and biking you can be a lot more luxurious. So I have some luxuries. I had. I have this little like folding chair, which is great, so you can kind of you know your back is tired after a long day, you can kind of relax while you're making dinner, and then I had a computer so I could do presentations and do slide...

...shows and write blogs and all of that, which was a bit of a luxury. So when I actually gave presentations to kids and I'd Say I brought a sofa and then I'd show them my little camp chair and I brought an entertainment system and I'd show them the computer and I may do with what I had and own the night, show my pillow. That was the fanciest, and I'd hold up this empty bag and then I'm like this will become my pillow, and then I stuff I would like stuff my right gear and there or any warm clothes I wasn't using that night and Whailah, I have a pillow. You mentioned how there were times where you're planning to get will use Kansas cities the example again, to get to Kansas City by a certain time. was there ever a time where maybe the wind was crazier for a couple of days and you're like arriving just before you have to give a presentation? Or did you never run into a situation like that? I I cut it close a few times, but I would usually new have like a three days and so I could look at the weather and be like, okay, tomorrow is going to we're going to have great tail wins, so I'm going to go as long as I can because the next day it's looking like there's rain and a headwind, and so I I always made it to my presentations, which is actually I don't think you know. People are like wow, you bike tenzero miles and sometimes it's like for me it's like yeah, but the hard part was arranging a presentation and and showing up. And you know, I didn't charge for my presentations. If I was to a school or Nature Center, something I'd U S I just asked if they could put a shout out to the community and find me a place to spend the night so that I would kind of always arrive a little bit earlier and then that way I could also get a shower. Nice, Nice, yeah, that seems like a fair trade. It was and it was great it. I've met so many wonderful people. I actually fought really hard on my book to keep a very long acknowledgements section. It's longer, I think, than any any book I've ever read. I think it's seven pages. But it was important to me to acknowledge like this was a solo trip, but I was helped by like literally thousands of people. Like thousands made my trip possible by coming to my presentations. I counted the other day I stayed at. I stay at sixty eight different family with sixty eight different families. So that was a that was a large part because I was doing the presentations, and so I at some point realized it was like wow, like the monarchs are helping me in so many ways right like I am being their voice, I am spreading their stor telling their story and helping spread the conservation message and they're thanking me with all these amazing opportunities. And so the more I helped the monarchs, the more the monarchs helped me, which I think is really beautiful and inspiring. Yeah, for sure. And we were talking before we started recording about going off on tangents and I've got a couple for you based on your journey,...

...although I think there's still there's still, I think, tangentially related at least. So maybe they they're semi tangents. But for one out of the sixty eight places that you stayed at, what was the most unusual meal that someone made for you? You know, I think actually wasn't the most unusual, but it was a funny story about staying with people and the food they fed me. And it started in southern Ontario and I actually originally wasn't going to go to southern Ontario because it was not on my route, but I just got these emails from these wonderful women that were telling me about all the things they do help support the monarchs and I could just tell that I needed to go there. And one of my theories was go where the energy is, because they're going to be the ones that are going to make things happen and you want us also support their efforts to so I went and they were just so excited and I think I did like five or six presentation eight days and I ate so much good food. But they were I realized about halfway through my stay that they were like really keeping an eye on me, because I remember the first woman I stayed with. I specifically remember her asking do you like peanut butter, and I was like yeah, I like peanut butter. Well, I think she'd been keeping track of everything. I really liked, all the food I was really liking and all the food I was I mean, I liked everything, but that, you know, like two houses down the way, the woman I get there and she's like, I've got peanut butter. She holds up a jar that she bought specifically for me, and I just loved that. They were like she loves pizza, she has ice cream, oh, and she loves peanut butter. You gotta get her some peanut butter. Oh. The only other thing I want to say is that I did stay with sixty eight families and there wasn't a meal that sticks out as like being bad, like I am a great eater. I like eating everything and I think that food taste good when it's prepared for you, and so I was just always so grateful and I'm sure I always got seconds and the third so, yeah, I have only only good memories. And I was just going to ask, are you a creamy or crunchy eat peanut butter? crunchy. Okay. And then, if I'm traveling, I prefer no salt because if you don't stir enough, all the salt settles to the bottom and then you get like those terrible salty bits at the end. I don't know if that's ever happened to you, but it's a shock if it has. But now I'm something to watch out for. Obviously are less lazy than I am, because I'm too lazy. I guessed to stir my peanut butter will enough. And the other tangent I wanted to go down also related to a trip. Those out again tangent very loosely. Here on your site, beyond a book Dot Org, you have some stats from your butter biking trip and one of those stats that you had for flat tires. So were any of those? I mean a flat tire is never convenient. But what was the worst one out of those? It's funny because I was just thinking about the flats and I could only remember one of them, and so that means...

...only one of them was inconvenient and it was the first flat of the trip and I write about in the book because I was in I was in the desert of Mexico. I was on this long stretch of road and it was right before April and was are. It was just already blasting hot and I looked, or I hear the like the air out of the tire, like the sound, and it is like Nah man, and I didn't have that much water and I was racing to get to the next town and I look around and there's just not a a piece of shade. There is not even like a little tiny bit of shade for for as long as far as I can see. But then I see, oh, there's a col vert under the road. So I walk my bike and steer my bike and go under the culvert and it was like just so refreshing. It was great and I changed my change my flat in the colvert no problems, and then I ended up actually sleeping a few nights in those Col verts because they were such great, such great out of the way and also really cool camping spots. Cool as in refreshing. That is in like wow, but some times of refreshing spot is also cool as in wow, like I needed that. It was. It was actually I'm glad you you persevered on that. That just triggered a bike story. When I was in the Dominican Republic, I was riding on a mountainous sort of terrain and I would say, especially back then, I was not really a a biker, like I maybe go for a leisurely ride around the neighborhood, but no, no kind of mountain action. And probably like five minutes into the trip, the chain just fell off of the bike that we I mean it was a borrowed bike that hundreds of people used already, so it was not not in the best condition, and I mean I don't have bike repair experience. I was like, I don't know what I'm doing, and this local Dominican boy was probably like nine, just walked up to me and I just kind of pointed at the thing and like shrugged, like do you know what to do, and he just he just comes out. Yeah, he don't even think he had any tools. I think he just used his hands and like yanked it off to like where it needed to be in any like reattached it and sent me on my way. We we just like gave each other high five. I was like thanks, man, you're awesome. That's awesome. I remember on the on my trip, I was lost somewhere in Mexico. I mean not super lost, but like I didn't know where I was lost, and I found this little seven year old boy, he must mean seven or eight, same and as like Hey, can you tell me where I am? Can you help me out? And it's yeah, go that way and like thank you. So it's good to it's good to not underestimate the the helpfulness and the skills of young people. Yes, yeah, they are very they have I feel like they're better at retaining things sometimes than adults. I know that I've been asked for directions as an adult and I think I'm giving them the right ones and then as...

...soon as they leave, I'm like, wait a minute, that might not be right. Oh Yeah, yeah, and I'll and their brave right. You know, they're the ones that are going to come up to the random stranger, yes, and and see what's up. Now, one of the other things that you do as well to support the butter bike trip is you have watercolor prints, which are super cool. I'm looking at the little slideshow now on the side that goes through them. How did how did those come about? Do you? Do you create those, or do you partner with someone, or how do you how do you come up with these designs? The watercolor started on another trip. I was canoeing the Missouri River with some friends and we were staying with people and we thought, oh, we like we wanted to give them a token of appreciation, a little little, little thank you. And when you're traveling it is hard to carry stuff and like what do people really want? And and so we started painting watercolor paintings with the Missouri River water. I mean and paint, but the water part of water lar came from the Missouri River and we would just give these a little postcard size paintings to people that we stayed with and I really loved doing it and I the people that I stayed with or that we stayed with, I could tell appreciated it. So I brought watercolors on my on my bike tour and it was a great way, like at night, to decompress and just paint in my tent and I got way better. And one of the things that I love about about my trip is that I realized that the monarch was teaching me how to watercolor. Right. Without the monarch, without the trip, I wouldn't have been practicing every night. So I really, I really have begun begun to see or see the monarch as one of my teachers, and the same goes for the but the book. Like I I wrote blogs, but that's as far as it went, and when I realized I wanted to write a book, the monarchs were the ones that were kind of they were the ones encouraging me, and so I see them also as my writing teacher and a lot of way and a lot of ways awesome, very cool, very cool, and one of the things I like to do with this podcast, I always say it's because it's less work for me to do, is to ask you a question. You wish you were asked more frequently and with yours you've touched it a little bit, but what's the biggest impact that you hope your trip will have? I hope it inspires people to see what's in their own yards. And I often, I say a lot in the books, to a similar variation of the same thing, which is we look but we don't see. And so I hope that people will start to notice all the brilliant creatures that visit them, that live next to them, that are their neighbors, and and not take them for granted but in stead, celebrate them and become their voice and share the message with as many people as...

...they can to and and, yeah, just help help people learn to appreciate this brilliant planet. Yeah, I think that's very well said and I have certainly been guilty of that, of really see it things but not not taking the time to appreciate them, and so I honestly think this pandemic has kind of helped in that sense of giving more like to get away from things. I'll go outside and just kind of reflect and be like, Oh, this is very nice, like I didn't even know this, this wonderful park was like four blocks from my house, like that's fantastic. Yeah, I I am guilty of it too, and and I have to remind myself to do the same thing. And for me, the the pandemic has also taught me to that you don't need to go anywhere to have an adventure. And I've honestly considered the last year. I've been calling it for me, the year of the tree, and I've just really really gotten to know like specific trees that I live near and rather than following a migrant, I've been just following these these really incredible bole creatures, these incredible plants that that don't go anywhere but still have so many stories to tell. Yeah, trees are so cool. We actually had a tree fall down in our backyard. Fun, fun fact. It was certainly I it wasn't a huge one, more, you know, just a little, little thin spindle one, but still kind of weird to wake up. It's like a yeah, it's just scary, but hopefully, hopefully, yours are far more durable. It sounds like they are. Yeah, I live it. I'm living in kind of the middle of the woods right now. I didn't have a spot of main spot. This is long as I've stayed it anywhere and in a long time, almost twenty years. So I got lucky enough. Friends invited me to stay on their property and they've got eight acres of coniferous forest and it's yeah, it's been a I wouldn't have been able to make it pretty much anywhere else. So I feel really grateful. It sounds very glorious. So for people that buy your book bicycling with butterflies, what can they expect in there? What will they find? They'll expect to find the side a bunch of monarch science, and for that part I say it's not about memorizing science. It's just about for every little facet of the migration it. It's about just not holding the numbers but holding the idea that it's just so complicated and so brilliant and so perfect. And then they'll also find lots of stories of adventure, what it's like to ride your bike following monarchs through Mexico, Canada in the United States. And they'll also find my best attempt at a show, at sharing with sharing with people why I love this planet and I describe it as so.

I basically describe it as part science, part adventure, part love letter to nature like that. That's a good mix of stuff too, right. Like I I'm I'm trying to tell the story of the monarch through a lens of a bike tour, and it's actually been really effective because you know, I'll be in New York, say, and people will look at me and they look at my bike and they'll be like, you biked here from Mexico, and then I'll be like yeah, and you see that little butterfly over there, like they're great grandma started in Mexico and it's taken three generations to get here, and that is really quite oh that's more extraordinary than anything I'm doing. And and so I think putting that human scale on the migration puts into perspective how how amazing, the monarch migration is. Yeah, that's a that is a very studying perspective to put it into scale. So that's fantastic. One other thing that you you would mentioned beforehand, that I think is a cool thing too, is planning milkweed to increase the natural habitat cat for monarchs. So could you talk a little bit about that and how that helps? Milkweed is just an incredible plant. I think its name is so boring it doesn't do the plant any justice. But it's this. It's called milk we because if you tear a leaf, often this like milky looking latex sap will seep out and it's that sap. That latex sap is sticky and it's also poisonous, so most herbivores avoid it. But monarchs actually have learned how to to eat the milkweed and actually it's a quester or store the poison in their body, rendering them poisonous and protected. And the MILKWEED is the only food source of the monarch Caterpillar. So it's for all the mathematicians out there, it's a very simple equation. Milk weed equals monarchs. No milk weed equals no monarchs. And the the one of the reasons monarchs have seen dramatic declines is because a habitat loss. And if you look around you'll see why. Like there's a lot of green grass lawns, there's a lot of pavement, there's a lot of development, there's a lot of farms, and so each one of those used to be a home for a monarch and now it's not. And so there's a revolution happening to replace and return the prairie, return native lands to to the planet. And and that is happening in backyards, in front yards and city parks and roadside ditches and it's really amazing and and every everyone can do it. So you find a bit of lawn and you plant native plants, whichever one's you like. There's lots and lots of different native plants for every everyone to choose from. And then and then milk wheat too, especially if you live in the range of the monarch. And doing that, the monarchs will come to you. They'll thank you with these visits. And I saw monarchs and farm fields and Texas. I saw them at and small gardens and and every state and I even saw monarch in New York...

City, which just goes to show if you if you plant, if you plant it, they will come and everyone can be part of the solution, which is a really great conservation opportunity that that the monarch is offering us. Yeah, absolutely. I always am very pleased when I drive around Texas and see monarchs. It's just like such a cool like I'm not expecting it sometimes and it's just like whoa that like it, like they immediately catch your eye and you're just you're just drawn to them. It's so cool. Yeah, I every single monarch. I tell kids that I'd had this thing. I had the dance called my monarch cap, they dance, which is where I flailed about and scared drivers who steered far around me. But but I celebrated every monarch encounter I saw. And the more you see, the more you notice. And and I actually remember being in Austin and looking up and there was just like a river of monarchs, like one or to every fuse every few seconds, blowing above the traffic and I wanted to just stop everyone and just be like, get out of your car, look. But hopefully, hopefully they looked when they got to a spot where that was safe. Yes, yes, especially, yeah, near, near downtown, you're basically bump and a bumper a lot of the time anyway. You might as well enjoy what's going on around you exactly. That's maybe that's why there's traffic jams to have well, give people opportunity to look up. Yes, yes, it all, it all, now, it does. You're welcome. Now we always like to wrap up with a top three and I think we covered I like, I like to ask this for inspiration again, like, like I said earlier, the more work you can do for me to ask these questions, though he's welcome. I think we kind of covered these things. So I'm going to do a wild hard turn. As your top three, because you are presenting a lot at schools and chatting with kids. What are your three favorite games that you played in your childhood? Well, I wrote I raised tadpoles. Do that? Is that kind of a game? Absolutely, okay, good. I raised tadpoles and that, of course, is why I love frogs today. So I like I was really into it and I had like these terrariums and I wanted to be like a official frog zookeeper, if that exists, and I raise the tadpoles and the first set of tadpoles they actually were mosquito larva, but that's another story. I did get tadpoles eventually, but I raised tadpoles. I played with beanie babies like you wouldn't believe, and I always say like my first access to nature were beanie babies and in college my parents must have found like five rolls of film and they were all of beanie babies in the garden that I'd like like posed. And...

...then what else did I play? Ill, I rode my bike a lot, which is probably not a surprise. And Yeah, it's been a I spend a lot of time ride in my bike and thinking I was hot stuff because I could bike around the block without without hands, and I think I was. I was pretty good at it. I mean that's much better than I can do. So I'm impressed, if nothing else, impressed the host of this focas well. I work here. is done well, not quite done, because you got to tell people if they want to check out the book, if they want to learn more about the monarchs, about you, where can they find you? I have a website that is beyond a book dot Org, which is kind of ironic, but you'll read my book and then you'll go beyond. You'll get out in the the roadside ditches and really get to know them on talks that way too. So beyond a book Dot Org, I have, I'm on facebook at beyond a book and you can buy you can buy bicycling with butterflies wherever books are sold, and I encourage folks to support, support their local bookstores. They've been doing a great job setting up virtual events for me, and those virtual events are are possible because because of local bookshops. So yeah, absolutely well, Sarah, thank you so much for coming on and chatting. This is I want to go outside and see what I can see now for me too, awesome. And of course we got to wrap up with a Corny joke, as we always do it, and I even found one that is topical to our discussion today. What does a chatty Caterpillar become? Of A flutter? No, I a social butterfly after people. I am gonna Steal that. I love it. Please do, please do. Good people cool things is produced in Austin, Texas. If you were a fan of this episode, go ahead and hit that follow button. That helps more people here the show. As always, you can send me a message Joey at good people cool thingscom. Thank you to all of the guests who have been on good people cool things. Can check out all the old episodes via good people cool thingscom. As always, thank you for listening and have a wonderful day.

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