Good People, Cool Things
Good People, Cool Things

Episode 46 · 2 years ago

46: Working in TV, Writing Plays, and Hollywood Inside Stories with Billy Van Zandt


Billy Van Zandt has been writing plays, TV shows, and films for nearly half a century. So, naturally, he’s got a few stories to tell about Hollywood. Luckily, he was taking notes along the way and has put his finest moments into his new book. 

GET IN THE CAR, JANE! Adventures in the TV Wasteland is a behind the scenes memoir of Emmy-nominated writer/producer Billy Van Zandt and his years making America’s favorite (and not so favorite) sitcoms.

Welcome to good people, cool things, the podcast featuring conversations with entrepreneurs, writers, musicians and other creatives. I'm your host, Joey held, and today's guest is emmy nominated writer and producer Billy van Zandt, who is the author of getting the car, Jane, Adventures in the TV wasteland and writer of more than twenty five plays alongside his partner, Jane Millmore. And we're talking about all different types of entertainment here. We're going through billy's playwriting career, his time in Hollywood. He's got stories about Lucille Ball, Martin, Lawrence, Don rickles, Dorothy Lamore and just so much more, working on new heart, the worst show he's ever worked on. If you're not rolling with laughter throughout this episode, I don't know what's to tell you, because billy is very funny and he's got so many great stories. And of course, recommend checking out get in the car Jane Adventures in the TV wasteland for so many fantastic stories. It's part behind the scenes gossip, Part Textbook, all truth, and it is such an entertaining read. Definitely check it out and while you're at it, why not check out the good people, cool things. Merch shot. There's lots of comfy items for you, from hoodies to hats and everything in between. Mean so you can look stylish while you're getting your laughter on reading a very entertaining book. But for now sit back, relax and enjoy the conversation with billy. Let's say someone hasn't heard of billy vans, and what is your elevator pitch for them, and what kind of elevator are we on while you're giving this pitch? Well, my elevator pitch of me is I'm a very I'm a hard working, hard working guy from New Jersey. That's pretty much of what is at the yell had the moment the elevators going down, I think, but I've been a bit of the top, so it's okay. I think you're the first person to be we're going down on the elevator. So way to mix it up there. Well, I plan on going back up, don't but right now the world shut down, so I don't have much of a choice that. Yeah, that is a very good point that I I can imagine the Hollywood world. I mean, yeah, like what's been going on for the last year? What have you been up to? Well, I've been doing a lot of podcast just talking about my book and I've been having lunch across the pool with my kids because we don't get too close, and I go for a lot of hikes with my dogs and and Theresa and I cook a lot and we binge watch a lot of TV like everybody else. So that's been that's life and life in Hollywood this year. But the the restaurants just closed up again. There were a couple restaurants. You know you can't. It's easy to do it out here because the weather is so nice and you're far away from each other, but they even close those up right before thanksgiving. So it's been interesting. I've done a lot of reorganizing of my office and done a lot of scanning of old files and that kind of stuff. So that part was that part was productive. I got to say, do you have any office reorganization tips, because I I know personally mine is a mess, so I'd love any tips. Number one, you scan everything and then throw it all out. That's one. Number two, the only thing that matters are photographs. Everything else is garbage. As scan those photographs for the longest time, I all I have family photos that are scanned that on disks back in New Jersey and copies of them out here. So if anything happens on either coast, were covered. And other than that, the stuff that you think... so priceless your kids are going to throw out anyway. So you might as looking now exactly cut out the middle bath exactly now. You you mentioned that you've been talking about your book get in the Car Jain. Yeah, what was the the impetus behind writing that? I know obviously you've got lots of great stories, but why? Why Now? For this book? It started with my my son's who had no constant one day they asked me what it was I actually did when I produced a TV show, because I they didn't, they weren't part of that process where they know my plays, because they would come to the theater and it's sit to rehearsals and they'd see that whole process. But when it came to the TV shows, they didn't quite get all the things that went into it. So I started writing it for them and unluckily for me, I had kept journals on all the TV shows that I either wrote or produced or created, and I had those two reference so every chapter in the book is a different TV show that we worked on, Bob Newhart, Martin Lawrence, the Wayne's brothers, on ricles, of the whole bunch of things and and luckily, thanks to those journals I it all came back to me and I had some you know, they filled the funny stories, basically of things I would tell at dinner parties. They get a laugh, you know, and so it's part gossipy and also, throughout the course of the book, a little bit at a time, you learn what an executive producer of a Sitcom does and you know, I don't hit people over the head with it, but you get a taste of all the obstacles you have to jump through to get a show on the air, the people you have to deal with, the Egos you have to deal with and how how it works, schedule Works, and I've talked to a lot of students, college students, a any aspiring writers, and they fall found it pretty helpful. But it wasn't my intention to make it that. It was really just to tell a bunch of funny stories. We'll definitely succeeded on both fronts, I think, and it is this a common thing for people to do that, to keep journals while they're working on a show, or is that just something you always just had an interest in? I never I don't know why I started it. I never kept a journal growing up. I never kept a journal other than the TV shows, and I think I started it because it was such a brand new thing to me and it was happening so fast I wanted to write down stuff that happened during the week. So on the weekend, if I talked anybody back home, I'd have I could reference something, you know, and and then I just it just I just started doing it after every show, anytime we'd have, you know, you have a fight with somebody at the network, I'd start writing again and and anything that I couldn't remember. My writing partner, Jane Milmore, she mean she remembered everything, you know, like a steel trap. So she helped me along on this too, and she just passed away in February, but I was she was she was around when I finished the book and she helped me edit it and she picked the pictures for the book. So, you know, it ended up being a nice tribute to her, which I didn't intend it to be when we started. It was just a book about the TV shows, but luckily I get to pay my respects to her in the book too. Yeah, absolutely. And can you talk a little bit about working with the writing partner, because you and Jane were do I have it right? Forty forty six years together. Forty six years together. We met when I was negative ten years old and we met in high school. She was at a we're both in high schools in New Jersey where I grew up, and we met at a competent drama competition at a local theater. She was doing a scene with her school, I was doing a scene from my school and that producer put us together in a Neil Simon Comedy Star spangled girl the following summer and we toured that around for two years and then we started... immediately and then we broke up when we dated, and we broke up a ridiculous amount of times until we both realized, you know what, let's just not do this again. So we stayed stayed friends and and forty six years we work together, all without missing one single day of work, despite the fact that we broke up and you know, all that stuff went on. But working with a partner has been fantastic. You have to have the right partner. Otherwise it's just two people fighting over who gets the type of the last word. And with Jane and me, she brought out the best of me. I brought out the best in her. She is. She was funny off the top of her head. I have to work at it, you know. I structure everything and think things through and then I come up with the de you know, the the great stuff. Anything off at top of James Head was usually the right thing that went into the script. And and she watched my back a lot because I don't enjoy. I'm sure they're very nice people, but I don't enjoy dealing with the studios in the networks. I don't like it. To me it's like just you hired me to be the creative first and just leave me alone. And that's sort of my attitude. And Jane would always take those phone calls and for the most part, if we had an ego on the set, she would be the one down. They're taking care of it. Well, I would run the writers room, so we said, you know, she did a little of this, I did a lot of that. She took care of the the costumes and the makeup and the hair. I took care of the props and the set and and it was like it was a great team. And I would say the key to a good writing partner in comedy is to find somebody you think is funnier than you are and have them think the same thing of you and then keep trying to make them laugh. That's pretty much the gist of how it makes a good team. I like that. It's nice and simple. Yeah, yeah, and we had fun. I we had every even the things that I complained about in the book. We ultimately had fun in everything we've done. I don't feel like it really work the day in my life. Well, I I'll take that back. There a couple shows that felt like I worked a lot, but for the most part, between the theater for all my plays and the the TV shows, it's just been fun. I'm proud of this and ashamed of this at the same time. I've never worked outside of show business. I've been very lucky in I was either writing and running at Children's Theater Company when I was in high school, or just are acting in a couple of films or also be directing somebody else's play, and so I always did like three things at once. So if one thing doesn't work out, you have the other two to go to, you know, so keep them busy. Name and game exactly? And do you have a favorite out of the three between TV, film and Broadway or plays, or are they all? We all have their perks. I usually like the one I'm not doing at the time. That's the one. But the I'm I'm most at home on stage because we we wrote the plays for ourselves as actors and and we would perform them and then we tore them around or them in New York, all that stuff, and that's where I felt the most at home. And also, you know, my very healthy ego would say that when you're in the theater, nobody's telling you what to do. Systems, so you know, you come out to t you work on TV. First Time I worked on a TV show, Sam Bobrick was my boss and he aims to playwright murder at the Howard Johnson's and a bunch of other shows, and he set me down and he said your playwright and I said yeah, he said, let me tell you how it works in TV. In the theater, you are the top of the pyramid. Everybody works to please you. Welcome to television. You are a first draft and people are going to do whatever they want with your script and the sooner you get...

...over that, the better you'll be. And it took me two three years to get past the fact if somebody wanted to change you know, is literally happen on new heart our first series. The executive producer took one of our scripts and somebody, one of the characters, entered saying, you know, hi or something, and the executive producer who changed it to hello, and I throw it like why is that better than what I have? You know, but you learn that when you're on a writing staff, if you're not the boss, if you're on a writing staff, your job is to imitate the writing of that boss, of the creator of the show. That's your whole job. You may think you're funnier than they are, you may think they're doing a terrible job, you may think they're brilliant, doesn't matter. You have to imitate their writing style. So every episode looks like it came from the same computer. And and then when you get your own show, you do things though you want, and then you have a whole writing staff of people rolling their eyes at the things you're page in their strips, you know stuff. There's nothing. You get used to. It was. It was weird for me at first because everybody had different titles, supervising, producer, Co producer, writing, you know, editor, story editor, and it took me, you know, took me a little while to realize, oh, that's just their roll writers, they just have different names. The only people on the show that the executive producers, the boss produced by is the guy in charge of the money and the crew, and everybody else that you see with a producer title is a writer, staff writer. Outside of that initial sort of learning period of right like whoever's in charge, did you find you were able to do that pretty quickly on the shows you worked on, or were some kind of a steeper learning curve to kind of hit that style? It was pretty easy at first, only because we had just come from the theater and we I don't know how many planes we'd had at that point. Maybe ten plays published then, probably not that many. But but after writing a twohour play, writing twenty two minutes of a Sitcom script was nothing for us. You know, we would they would give you two weeks to write a first raft we do it in two days and spend the rest of the time playing basketball outside o't off and there were. There was one particular show. I go about this. I go through this pretty detailed in the in the book. A show that I hated working on, and with reason, and I couldn't imitate the writing of the boss because the boss didn't know what she was doing at all and we had a big staff of people and one by one everybody would get fired. Every Saturday somebody knew would be fired, but they wouldn't replace these people. It would just get a smaller and smaller and smaller writing staff till at the end it was Jane and me, Bruce Ferber, who ended up running home improvement, and then the boss, and it was torture and Jane and I quit that show. We walked out after nine episodes. I couldn't take it anymore. I didn't like the way they treated actors and like the assembly line feel of working on the show and it took me, took me a couple months after I left that show to remember why I liked writing. You know so, but you know the flip side of that. You know it worked for Bob Newhart and every day is it's like a party with your family and I loved everybody on that show. I would have done that show forever. Same with the Don rickles Richard Lewis show. We did Jamie the Curtis as they were for the for the bumps in the road, and then weren't that many. It's a two or three tops. For remember long, forty six years I've been doing this. Every other time has been fun. My attitude always been life is too short. If I'm not going to have a good time, I don't want to do it. I think that's a good attitude to have generally in most things in life. Yeah, and that's a very solid success rate. Only have in two or three sort of major pens along the way. Yeah, they and and and I'll put up the me fair. I'll put up with difficult people if what they're giving you is brilliance. You know, Martin Lawrence was... hard to work with, but I'm glad I did it. I thought. I thought everything he did was pretty pretty great. It was rough to go through it, but the work that he did I thought was quite good. Elane stretched Broadway, you know legend. She came to work with us on a show with Andrew dice clay and Cathy moriarity and you know everybody who said you can't, she's a pain in the neck. You can use her, you can't. Well, she was brilliant. So I was happy. I was happy to do that. And and yeah, and then if somebody, you know somebody, rubbed you the wrong way, you don't hire them again. It's real simple. But I usually, we usually have a company of people I've worked with probably for forty years, actors, when we do our plays, and I write specifically for them, whether they do the roll or not. I like to hear the voice of whoever I hear in my head, you know, and and we just have so much fun. It's just fun and doing the plays is nothing more than nothing less than fun all the time. Have you ever written for someone who ends up with another role in the same production, or has that never happened? Huh, let's say no either either. Well, some of our some of our shows are so old I've seen productions of somebody who played a younger role playing the older guys role. But like our first play with love, sex in the IRS, which is a pretty broad farce and we wrote it in one thousand nine hundred and seventy nine and now when I see productions of it, because it gets done in summer stock and regional theater all over the place, it's a period piece that they said in the s and it's like what was wasn't that? When I did it it was just the show. But in one of the guys who played our our younger lead in that in the original production, he ended up playing the janitor in in another production of it when about thirty years later. I like that coming full circle. Yeah, yeah, you kind of touched on this a little bit, but I always like asking people about their worst gigs. I but since you've sort of dove into a little bit, how about what's like one of the worst shows you've you've put on like a play. My plays are all good. It's the TV shows. The worst TV show was a show called nurses. You know it don't ran and ran three years to which just blew my mind and I just didn't care for the way it was run. There was no respect for anybody on the lot. That I could tell case and point, and I tell the story this is the week before I quit the show because I couldn't take this kind of stuff anymore. It was a show that catered to an older audience. So I suggested that, you know, why don't we bring in some old mgm movie stars to play the guest our spots, because that's the audience to you know, and they said, oh, that's great, and I said the script we just wrote has an older lady in it. I just saw Dorothy Lamore in a play and doing a Stephen Sondheim play down in Long Beach. Why don't we bring her into play the grandmother? And they said, oh, that's a great idea and they called her up and she said, I'd never auditioned for anything in my life, not even my paramount contract, but if you really want me that bad, I'll be happy to commit and meet with you. And she came in at a retirement big Gold Rolls Royce pulls up, she steps out, she comes into the waiting room where there are thirty other women reading for the same role. I went crazy, I went nuts. I said you got other people coming in and they said yeah, if she wants to, you know, she wants to work in this town.

Is the way it's done. So she came in to read, which was embarrassing to make somebody like that read and I was our you know, I was already waiting to hear the good story. It's about working with Bob Hope and being crosby and all the road pictures and all this other stuff. So she comes in and she was nervous, you know, she had never read for anybody before and she's very sweet. And as she walked out, the door wasn't even closed and one of the bosses says now we can do better, bring the next one in. I said you're not going to cast her, and he said No. So what are you going to say to her? He said, I don't come, I call on her. You don't call everybody it doesn't get a job. That Sumed up what I was working with and I didn't like that at all. And since then, but I learned a lesson there. Since then I have never, and when I'm running my own show, I never bring in an established actor to audition. You know, there's a reason that they were big are big and I treat them with respect and I would never do that again. Never. Yeah, I think the way you do it as reasonably recent. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we had fun and I did the Don rickles show. We brought you know, we brought in all the people. One of the perks of being the boss, when you're the creator the show, is I got to bring in all the people I grew up watching on TV, you know. So I brought in Kate Ballard from the mother's a lot to do a role and she thanked me for bringing her back to television. We brought in Alvi Moore, who is tank Kimble on green acres for another show, and it was just it was crazy fun just watching these guys, you know, get back at it. I brought in hunts hall from the back Owery Boys. He pulled him out of retirement. I thought, Oh, he'd be funny as the pretel seller on the street, Bonner, and so it's great. It was one of the one of the only perks really you get of when you're running your own show. That's fantastic. And your your last I production with Jane or your last collaboration. It's the boomer boys musical. Yeah, that started the the the guy wrote the music for it. Waylon Picard, lives out in Vegas and we work with them. While a long while ago he was a musical director from my my then wife, Adrian Barbow's nightclub act and I produce an album that he did for her and he called us out of the blue and he said I've got an idea for a show. I want to do the changes that men go through when they hit a certain age and we'll do it as a comedy review. It'll be hilariously funny. What do you think? And I said, well, I don't know, I don't really do stuff that other people suggest and James said we're going to do it. I said, why are we going to do it? She said, I'd rather write about it then here you complain about it all the time. So we did. We wrote it's such a fun show. It's four guys, so it was like sort of like the rat pack for guys, for friends, talking and singing about the changes that men go through when they hit a certain age. And the response has been fantastic. We toward it for the country, toward the country for probably two and a half years before the pandemic hit. So we're waiting, waiting for a vaccine so we can get back out on the road again and and and I'll enjoy going back out on the road with that. First of all, the fun show. Two of the two of the four guys that I do it with I've been friends with forever, one actually from like kindergarten class, believe it or not. And and it's also the last thing that Jane and I did together. So it's almost a continuation of where we were. So it's I don't you know, it's been a very weird, surreal year of mourning her death and not being able to have a funeral and just the whole thing's weird. But it'll feel like, you know, we're still back in it once once we get back in on the road again. Have you seen any kind of you mentioned... you've been kind of binging on Netflix, but as far as like the live theater experience, that's a little more hard to recreate virtually. But have you seen any good examples or people doing things were like, oh, that's kind of cool. I saw I've seen a couple of very good zoom readings, I guess can call them, but they really have to be directed. It's not just a matter of everybody talks when your line comes they need to be directed. You need to see, you know, one guy handing handing a prop off camera and then the guy on the in the other box picking up the same prop and it's sort of all flows together. It's kind of fun. I saw a good Tim Pinkney play. I can't remember the title. A couple of our shows have been done on the zoom. You've got hate mail, which really was set up for who knew was set up for a zoom call. If it's five people. It's a story of one of Jaan's divorces told through emails. So you have on stage when you do it live, there are five actors at five desks with IPADS and laptops and you're reading and emailing each other, and so that fit perfectly into a zoom call. Seen that a couple of different productions of that. That was kind of fun. But I've also enjoyed the don't even know what it is. Maybe it's Broadwaycom or one of those things, seeing a lot of London plays that they record and they get to see plays that you never got to see. So I'm enjoying that and I just I think I hope we get back to I hope we get back to live theater soon, because so itchy to get back on stage. I hope so too. It is it is just like there have been some great efforts, virtually, and some, you know, some great productions. But yeah, there's just nothing like it. It's it's so, yeah, yeah, and I don't know what they're going to do in terms of when I saw there was a sixty minutes episode on right when the pandemic hit and had been recorded, you know, months prior so. This is before anybody knew any of this, and it took place in Japan and it showed people going to the theater and every single person in the audience had a mask on. And little did we know, that's we know, hello, that's where West we're going to be. But it was just normal for them. That's what they do. So I thought, well, okay, we got a shot at this. And Yeah, they what well, but what a lot of theaters are starting to do, and I don't think it's going to work, frankly, is they're taking out like every other seat in their theater. And I like the idea of trying to get open again, but I really don't know how a theater survives on fifty percent of the capacity. You know, most theaters a hundred percent capacity. Plus sponsors too came to stay open. You know so, but you know, we'll get there. We'll get there and may take longer than I want, but we'll get back there. Yeah, I think there's. I mean I never can count out the creativity of people to to get, yeah, the content out there. Yeah, even if it is a little while before we're we're back in theater, it's there's, there's always way. It's had and I'm enjoying the like what's the name of the thing below studio fifty four once something called but all the nightclub performers, they can do virtual concerts. Those are kind of those are fun to watch. Just I'm in a piano player, but who cares? Yeah, absolutely. I remember seeing at the start of the pandemic Erica by do doing bedroom concerts and kind of did like a choose your own adventure where I, whoever was watching, would vote between like, Oh, where should I go next, like this room and play this song or this room and play this song? I look, that's pretty cool. That's cool. That's cool. Yeah, yeah, and I and you know,...

...a lot of people don't know if you know Mary Neelie is, but she got us through the early part of the pandemic. She's an actress who simply filmed herself lip syncing to every Broadway musical with her own playing all the roles, directing it herself. It was just her and they're they're brilliantly funny because she's so earnest and what she's doing. And you know she's got a crappy wig on to play this role and a cloth on her head to play a nun in the sound of music. But they're funny as hell and you know that there's creativity right there and I'm sure, I'm sure they've got deals going left and right for her now. And Sarah Cooperw did all the imitations of Donald Trump. You know people, people will make do when they have to. Yeah, and getting great mileage out of those old wigs too. Yeah, really, yeah, Sir, I'm glad you mentioned Sarah Cooper. She's I just like applaud, like I can't even tell at this point what's what's real and what's a paradise. So it's it's true, milk, that's true. We've been talking about lots of different memories and moments that you've had, but at the end of the episode I always like to wrap up with the top three, and I think your top three Hollywood moments would just be fantastic to hear about. We can talk about the good one, since we've covered the bad ones. Good, I hope so. Top three Hollywood moments was be getting to meet and work with Lucille Ball was number one. She's the reason I went into show business. I wanted to do the kind of comedy that she did. I learned from her, learned timing, I learned how to structure a script from her writers and it's simply that show made me laugh more than anything else as a kid watching that. But I finally got to work with her. That was absolutely number one and she turned out to be everything I wanted her to be. She was just fantastic. It was a master class watching her work and and we got to be friendly for a couple of weeks. So that was that was number one for me. Number two was working with Don rickles, just the sweetest guy in the world. We unfortunately for for us, we debuted the show. It was don's last Sitcom, called Daddy dearist with Richard Lewis, and we premiered at the height of the beginning of political correctness and Don's whole career is about plea politically incorrect. So we had a lot of fights with the networks and the critics hated us. The audience is like us, but regardless, it was just the most fun I ever had on a show. Every day was just a party and I loved everybody working on it. We kept, I would say we kept that entire crew through a couple of different shows. Just I liked everybody on the crew. Got To work with Renee Taylor, who one of the first professional productions I did, is an actor. was in one of her plays. So we hired her to play Don's wife and that's the show where I pulled in hunts hall and Kate Ballard and all these other people that I grew up with and I would I wish that show had run forever, and we should have, I think. But and third be my third thing might be my off Broadway show, silent laughter. That was a silent this was one of those things where every time we'd go to write a new play, was like, okay, what haven't we done? Let's try this, let's try this, and if it scared me enough, it usually was the right choice that you know, let's try this. What? We never wrote a musical before. Who Cares, let's try it. And so this silent laughter was a silent movie, silent slapstick movie, done live on stage with a big...

...whirlitz or organ playing along with the actors. There is no dialog. It was in untitled cards above our heads and the whole show was in shades of black, gray and white. It was fascinating to do it. I was scared to death until on opening night was like anybody going to laugh at this thing and we got great reviews in the New York Times and it was just it was such a joy to do that. That was fun. That sounds simultaneously a blast to do but yeah, like you're saying, also terrify. Well, especially because the night before we had an audience. I had, you know, a couple of friends at the audience and this one woman who had worked with first thirty years. At that point I get pulled me assignment. I don't know about this one billy, like, Oh God, okay, but we did it. We got our laughs. So it was good clow and I would also say dropped dead the that was the first off roadway show I produced and that we wrote and then I did it out here. We did that forever we did that in New York and then we did it out here in La and we had for the cast members from New York and then we had again meet met kid in the candy store. I had rose Marie for the Dick Fan Dyke show, donny most from happy days, who else was in the Barney Martin from Seinfeld, and we just oh and and forgetting and a woman o became my wife, Adrian Barbot, and that one was so much fun, so much fun, and thank God that was at the same time I was doing that terrible show nurses. So I would do the TV show during the day and then do the play at night, and thank God for that. Or want to blow my brains at working on that TV? Yeah, good to keep your Saturday a little bit. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now, obviously with the pandemic, we don't we don't know what's what's coming up, but I assume you're not totally just binge watching Netflix and and eating across the pool. Do you have some ideas that are kind of percolating a little bit for two thousand and twenty one, twelve M to whenever we're back out. The weird thing we're Jane got sick and she got stick out of the Bluesho no symptoms, she just turned yellow overnight and the next day found out she had pancreatic cancer, which blew our minds. But we thought it was a misdiagnosis because she was the healthiest thing you ever saw. And so for the fifteen months, and it was fifteen months that she fought that thing, we kept thinking it's missed, Miss Diagnos, phost it's, you know, don't one, they'll find something else. I'll try and different pills and right. And we work two three days a week the entire time because she consisted, she wanted to work. And so we have a bunch of half written projects sitting on shelves right now that I'm going to plan on finishing all of them and a couple couple screenplays and a couple of books I want to finish too. So yeah, I don't believe it's sitting around doing nothing at all. My I have we got a great work ethic from my father. We I think we listened a little too closely, because we don't we don't know how to turn it off and our family we just do stuff. I'll let me do a lot of stuff, but but I also to me, this is fun. I don't feel like I'm work when I don't feel like I'm working when I'm working, you know. So I'm one of those people that wakes up and go straight to the computer and starts writing stuff. Yeah, I think that's more fun than just sitting around it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, could deal, will billy. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat. I people want to learn more about all the stuff you've done. If they want to check out the book, where can they find you? Get in the car. Jayne Adventures in the TV waste land available on Amazon. It's available on Barnes and noble and if you go to my website, vans and Millmorecom, you can learn...

...all about all the coming shows when we have them, all the TV shows we've done, all the film's, all the all the plays, and I think they're actually selling hardcover. They are selling hardcover copies of the book on there too. And as for twitter and Instagram, I'm on there and have no idea what my handles are, so we'll just look me up. You'll figure it out. There's all. That's only one of me out there. We'll do some will do some Google and we can add it in the show notes for you. Thank you great. I know I'm the same way with my passwords. For a lot of them I'm just like, if I ever get the automatic log out, I'll be I'll be screwed for sure. I actually am ashamed to do this. I have a five page list of my passwords that I keep. Want to keep one with my laptop, I keep one with my in my desk, so it's like and then it's my phone to thank God, they memorize you. You're a shamed by that. I think that's brilliant. I should just start doing that. Well, it's fine until somebody robs your house and find your past. That's true. That's true. You know, I've got to invest in the what is it? The one password, or like last pass out of its yeah, put some of my DNA in there and then that's a little harder and harder to rob. It's true. Right, maybe for two thousand and twenty one that can be the project. It's get my past password life in order and scan may murder. Scan all your stuff exactly exactly and throw away all the all the junker, than everything at a photo. Keep the photo. That's it. Well, that matters. Wonderful Really. Thank you so much. This was fantastic. I had a great time and highly recommend your book to everyone listening. Thank you. This is a lot of fun. Enjoyed it absolutely and of course we got to end with a Corny joke. And okay, this, this will probably make you grown more than laugh, but we'll say I all right, what's even better than Ted Danson? I don't know what's better than Ted man Ted singing and dancing. All Right, I won't be stealing that's one of my shows, mother, but that's great. Thank you. Thank you for listening to good people cool things. Always appreciate you checking out the show. If you're a fan and you're listening on Apple Podcast, I'd appreciate a five star review or rating. Just head on over to your apple podcast at tap those five stars and leave a few kind words if you want. If not, the rating is totally fine. And if you're listening on spotify, would love a subscription as well. Subscribing then you'll be notified any time a new episode comes to your devices. Thank you again for listening. Have a fantastic day.

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