Good People, Cool Things
Good People, Cool Things

Episode 75 · 1 year ago

75: The Wonders of Space and Writing Books with Bruce McCandless III

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Bruce McCandless III has never been to space, but you’ve certainly seen his dad gazing at the earth before. Bruce McCandless II began his career with NASA in 1966 and he was Houston’s capsule communicator (CAPCOM) speaking directly with astronauts during the first moonwalk on Apollo 11. And in 1984, McCandless II soared into history during the Challenger mission, becoming the first astronaut to make an untethered free flight. And yes, you’ve certainly seen the picture of this moment.

That picture is also the cover of Bruce McCandless III’s new book, Wonders All Around: The Incredible True Story of Astronaut Bruce McCandless II and the First Untethered Flight in Space. As the title suggests, it’s an intimate look at not just his dad’s story but the growth of the space industry itself.

It’s a delightfully fascinating read, but it’s hardly Bruce’s first foray into writing. And lucky for us, he’s giving an inside look into his other books, from his inspiration to how he was able to write them despite having a full-time job as a lawyer — you know, a really simple profession that doesn’t take up several hours of your day. It’s truly remarkable.

Good people cool things as a podcast feature and conversations with entrepreneurs, writers, musicians and other creatives. Get inspired by their stories to do your own cool thing, and here's your host, Joey held. Welcome to good people, cool things. Today's guest is writer Bruce mccanlest the third, and we're chatting all about the different kinds of books that he's written. His latest is wonders all around, the incredible true story of astronaut Bruce mccanlest the second and the first untethered flight and space. And even if you don't know the name Bruce mccanless, you have certainly seen the iconic photo that is the cover of this book and has been just plaster at all throughout history as what looks like a man just floating, free, floating in space, which is a super cool picture. So we're talking about all of that. We're talking about the new book, but Bruce has written plenty of other books as whilst we're talking about those two, his first story that he ever wrote back in third grade. We're talking about our lack of drawing ability, but we make up for it with the writing. That's the important part, is that we're writing and having good stuff. Going through that. Bruce Walks through his writing process and, by the way, he wrote these books while practicing law and it's kind of a demanding career, so to write multiple books on the side of it. Bruce offers and insight into how he did all that and how you can do the same even if you're not practicing law on the side of your job. You can build a writing habit and keep on doing it. If you like to get in touch with good people cool things, you can reach out via facebook, twitter or instagram. At gpct podcast, you can always send an email, as while Joey at good people cool thingscom love hearing from you. So love if you're in the mood for some new threads, new hat, new wall art, all that good stuff, head on over to the shop at good people cool thingscom shop. Keep it real simple with the URLS. Not Trying to reinvent the wheel here, as my high school sports marketing teacher would always say. In any case, we're heading off into space and this conversation with Bruce. For people who don't know who you are, can you give us your elevator pitch? I. Can you also tell us the type of elevator that we're riding on. Oh, no, I'm Bruce mccandles. The third I'm a writer. I'm a spent many years practicing law, but but I've retired from that, that line of work, and and I've just written a book about NASA and the Man Space Program and my Dad's role in that program. It's called wanders all around and it's the incredible true story of astronaut Bruce mccandles, the second and the first untithered flight in space. And the the elevators are really rickety elevator and I'm worried that it's going to follow a minute. Definitely definitely paints a picture that. Yeah, it's not always a fan of so you've essentially, I mean you've got space as your background...

...while we're chatting on zoom here. So you've kind of grown up around space. Yeah, what was that like, because I I mean I obviously like have seen space, but I I haven't like gotten to surround myself with it. So what was that like? Yeah, so I grew up down south of Houston, real close to the the Johnson Space Center, what we used to be called the man space draft center and sees it was renamed the Johnson Space Center and it was a there were several subdivisions that grew up around the space center and and they were they were all, you know, very pleasant, sort of peaceful, leafy sub enclaves and they were full of engineers and technicians and and and the Astra and the managers and the astronauts would come from various parts of the country to work on the space program it was a pretty homogeneous community, or set up communities. It was a pretty pretty egalitarian community and pretty much everyone down there was was working on a government salary or work for a contractor with comparable government salaries. It's so so it was. It was, you know, they were there weren't a lot of differences in terms of who had a nice boat or who had a who had the Niger car. I mean it was, like I said, it was all pretty pretty homogeneous. And and I moved down there with my family in one nineteen and sixty six and sort of grew up around the I don't really remember the gem Andy Launches, but I do remember the Apollo launches and, of course, Sky Lab and the Apollo soyu's test project and and after that, you know, followed after that, after a few years by the by the space show. And you know my dad went to NASA as an Apollo astronaut, as a group picked in one thousand nine hundred and sixty six to be the man who would who would go to the moon. He didn't make it to the moon with Apollo, but he later flew in a couple of the shuttle missions and and so you know we had a we had sort of a ringside seats all that. You know, the the highs and lows, and there were definitely were some lows. But I remember here and all the time or less about what programs were up on deck and what had been canceled and what was being changed and that sort of thing. So so and then regard it was it was exciting. I have to say I wasn't a huge spaceman of the time. I've actually gotten into some of that now that I'm a little bit older and I've been writing book. I always found it interesting but obviously never had like a ringside seat, like you were saying, of that up close and personal to it. And I think the the image of your dad being...

...untethered in space. It's in the title of the book. You know, it's a pretty iconic image that I think a lot of people would recognize. But for for US space I new bees, for lack of a better word. What's going on there, because he's not just floating away into space like it might luck if right now. So what's going on there? Yeah, okay, well, that's that's a that's a good story at a great question. So the photograph that you that that is on the cover of the book and that a lot of people recognize, is is a is a photograph of Bruce mccandles a second testing what was called the the man maneuvering unit, and then is a it's basically a jet pack that that uses nitrogen gas to propel the astronaut around in different directions and and different attitudes and that sort of thing. And and there's a long history behind development of that thing. It was actually first tested out on the in the Gemini Program Jeens Tarnon tried to try to test out had a lot of trouble with his tether getting back to the unit and the ultimately the test was called off and Nassa lost interested in the project for a while. But when the shuttle came online there was a lot of interest in the idea that, hey, we're going up there in this in the shuttle, we should be able to use this reusable spacecraft to do things like servicing satellites, repairing the shuttle, possibly even rescue missions. So so we need to come up with some way that the astronauts can go outside the spacecraft and move around freely to work and function in space. And so that's what the MMU was designed to do, to be able to propel the astronaut back and forth between the space shuttle orbiter and and whatever satellite or other spacecraft the astronaut needed to get to. My Dad spent eighteen years working on the thing before we finally got a chance to test it on the eleven, the shuttle mission, is ts eleven, in February of one thousand nine hundred and eighty four. You're right, he wasn't. He wasn't exactly floating because he was propelling himself the jet pack. He couldn't go very fast with that thing, but he managed to get out to about a hundred, little over a hundred meters, three hundred feet, which, if you've seen the some of the photographs, is pretty impressive. You're a good ways away from the orbiter and and you know, there was a call on the plans for him to at that point turn around and face out into space and he never did that. He, he. He maintained his focus squarely on the orbiter. As you know, as you can imagine, it's your way home. So so, yeah, that's what that photograph is all about. It was it was taken by his his crewmate, an astronaut name who Gibson, who who? He had an old sort of manually operated camera. Man You get that photograph focused and composed manually and turn into one of the really iconic photos of...

...of the shuttle era and one of the most most requested photographs that the NASA has on offer. So yeah, no, I think it's fair to call it iconic. Yeah, and like the wherewithal to get such a good photo like that. Like I've had situations with, you know, my much fancier camera or even my phone where I've got like eight minutes I can set everything up and I still can't get a great picture and to hey, yeah, I get that's not impressive. I'm exactly the same way. He he said he looked through the viewfinder. He had been sort of full with camera look the viewfinder and was was amazed at was so amazed at what he saw that he put the camera down and then had to tell himself fate, okay, there's here, this is the shot, you know, and it picked it back up and managed to get the get the photograph that the so many people have seen. And Yeah, I know he did an amazing job and you know, you could argue that. I remember watching the video footage from the from the mission back in one thousand nine hundred and eighty four, and it was pretty grainy. Couldn't really tell exactly what was going on, but it was. But it was who Gibson's photograph and I was released after the astronauts came back. That that really captured the moment. And then it's sort of become almost as much a work of art, that is it, as it is a just a document of the event. Yeah, it's always interesting to see in iconic moments like that, of how a photograph like is so much more encapsulating, even though it is just that one moment in time. It's like, okay, that looks so much better than the whole videos. That's super yeah, I know exactly what you mean and and you know they're there. There are several photographs from the from the man space program that that that sort of have that effect. There's one called the earth rise photograph from Apollo Eight, there's the big blue marble photograph from a Paulo Seventeen, and and those photographs where you were sort of the first time that that men and women could see the planet Earth as a distinct entity, that that, you know, the planet Earth Fits in the frame of the photograph and we realize we're out here alone in space and in, you know, planet earth. This kind of a miracle when you think about it. It's the result of a conjunction of all kinds of unlikely factors that created the perfect conditions for for for sustaining life in a lot of people credit that earthrise photograph from Apollo Eight is being one of the catalysts of the environmental movement here in the US and elsewhere. That's that's fantastic. And you mentioned how maybe back when this was happening you didn't have as much of an appreciation for a space travel as you do now. So do you have any plans to hop a space or now? No, I'm I'm well, I can't say that I'm too old, because there are older people who are going to be doing that soon, this combination...

...of age and wealth. I mean at this point, if you're going to be going up in the space on either jeff basis is Richard Branson's space machines, you're going to need a lot of money. And and the more demanding flights, say to Massa's plan flight to the moon, I think are sort of I think there are other people waiting for those flights with better qualifications. I'd like to but I don't. I don't see it happening anytime soon. My only experience is the Disney ride where Gary Sinie is your your mission command, and I get pretty motion sickness just from that. So I don't know if it's in the cards for me. But yeah, I get I have some issues with that and I've hate to embarrassed even admitted, but the teacup right, I have going around even on that thing. So space probably in the best place right. Yeah, I empathize with you. So we're we're in it together, even if if everyone else can handle the teacups well, mine the Ford here on Earth. Now this is your most recent book, but it is not your first. Book. You've written several other every other different pieces of work and we'll touch on all of them. But I always like asking writers this. Do you remember the first thing that you ever wrote? You know, I I think I do. The first sort of, I would say, substantial, novel length piece. You know, noveling for a third grader was a piece I wrote about, you know, about being in a fighter playing squadron during the Second World War and for some reason I designated it the two thousand and seventy seven squadron and it was the Rainbow Squadron and we had all my friends, you know, we're fellow pilots, and you know, we went around defending Europe and England in the US and shooting down the shooting down a Nazi planes and that sort of thing. And I, you know, I'm I suspect it was. It was not not a serious work of art, but but it was a start and I enjoy doing it. So so I think that was the think that was the first. That's the first thing I can remember writings. Did it have accompanying pictures as well or with it strictly written? I don't know. It was a I was serious. No illustrations for me know there was. It was all writing. The only illustrations I was capable of, especially at that age and really at this age, is, you know, stick figures. So so it had it pretty much had to be head to be written. Yeah, it's always. I I don't know if you've ever played any of the JACKBOX Games. I know I don't think they're. Essentially they they've been very popular during quarantine because you can play them on a phone and someone can just pop the the actual screen on on zoom. But a bunch of different party packs are just supposed to be like Social Party Games and all of them have some sort of drawing game to it. And so there's one where you design t shirts and then you'll do a drawing and then someone else do a slogan and you vote on your favorites. But every time I play any of those same sort...

...of thing. For me it's like a real crude stick figure and then it's like going up against someone that like has a one of those like drawing sticks for the IPAD and it's like right, very professionally drawn there like layering shadows and colors and I'm like, we had a minute to drive this. How do you do that so well. Yeah, some people like that or for a magical I don't know, I'm not sure how they do it. All right, we'll stick to writing. It's more fun anyway. So tell us about your other books that you've written. Yeah, so, so, so wanders all around. Is a big departure for me in so far as it's non fiction. Previously, of I should say, I spent twenty five years practicing law, but during that time I was writing on the side and in primarily writing science fiction, fantasy, with some with some horror as well. And the first book I wrote Will Stop Sour Lake, which is just we just sort of a historical fiction set in East Texas in the one thousand nine hundred and eleven, and it's sci fi and in so far as the the the menacing element in the stories not from around here, and there's a there's a pretty healthy helping of social commentary as well, because there's a series of murders, sort of grewsome murders that take place and suspicion in the community falls on one and the black community and then one African American fellow in particular, and the sheriff of the town has to you know, hurry to find what's really going on before there's a before violence breaks out. And and and he's helped in that and that man and that endeavor by a Texas Ranger and by an African American doctor from Houston and from by a sort of a local naturalist who's actually based on a real historical character. And and and so it's been pretty well received. It's got a lot of good reviews on Amazon good reads, and I've I've actually just finished a sequel to that book that will be out in September. It's called in the land of dead horses, which sort has a similar, similar sort of problem to be solved, but it takes place and not in east exs but in but in West exes, in the desert country. And and I think that's going to be a lot of fun too. Obviously, like you're saying, with a departure to write your latest book, wonders all around as far as the writing process goes. was that all so different because fiction versus non infection, or is it still kind of a similar process? Yeah, well, here's here's the here's the problem, Joey, so that you know that what one reason I wanted to write the book is because, you know, my dad had this really fascinating life and...

...and there's this the strong narrative arc that that I try to cover in the in the book where he he comes to Nassas sort of this prodigy. He's the youngest astro on his goo effect he was the youngest astronaut a NASA for a while. His career sort of takes off. He was the he's actually he was actually the Capcom capital communicator for the portion of Apollo eleven where Neil Armstrong and both aldren, you know, come down the ladder and said throw the moon. So if you ever listen to that you'll hear he'll hear his voice. But something happened in his career sort of got derailed and he had to work very hard to come back from the sort of a de facto, I'm not gonna say banishment, but the sort of getting getting knocked off track and he had to work very hard to get back in the the rotation for a flight. And so the story is one of perseverance and redemption and in and that part, that that part you can find in fiction as well as it's a perfect story to make a novel out of. Her a short story. But here's the here's the problem. All this really happened and there there are people out there who are fanatical about space history and and I and I don't mean that a bad way, I mean that the good way. They are they are big fans of space history and they spend a lot of time reading about it and thinking about it. So if you're going to tell a story about about one of the Apollo astronauts, you know it, which is a it's a pretty beloved group among some folks. You have to be careful to get to get your facts straight and and and not just the biographical facts, but some of the facts at least, about about space travel and how it works and why it works. And Joey, that was a that was hard for me, I got to say. I mean I'm not I'm not sure I got it all right. I mean I had some help, I talked to a lot of folks about it and the errors are all mine. But but some of that stuff was was was was about over my head. Literally. Yeah, I think it's always any any kind of nonfiction book. I'm always very impressed by just how much research goes into it and I think that a lot of times people might not even realize that while they're they're reading of like all those conversations. You've had all those facts that you had to check. So it's I'm always impressed by it. Well, I was, you know, I was. I was. I was helped a little bit in that my mom and dad both passed away fairly recently. My mom and in two thousand and fourteen, my dad and two thousand and seventeen, and and my wife and I and my sister have been engaged ever since and sort of going through old papers and files and boxes and that sort of thing. And and and, you know, come to find out, my parents were were pretty pretty crazy. And the subject of keeping things. They kept all...

...kinds of things. I mean they kept good example, here's a good thing they kept. They they kept their correspondence from the early s when my dad was serving in the navy, you know, and writing. They were writing back and forth while he was in the Mediterranean with the Sixth Fleet and she was back in the US. You know, they kept they kept those letters from the early s and you know those. That's good. And of course they also my dad also kept his income tax, you know, returns for forty years whatever. That's I don't know that I need those. And Old Bank statements and that sort of thing, medical records, but, but, but a lot of the to some extent my dad was his own archivist. I mean he kept so much stuff that I would you know, once you got, once you went through the the this, the junk and got to the good stuff. I mean it was a lot of it was there, you know, naval reg navy records, astronaut files, you know. You know, Manuel say kind of think it was pretty pretty cool to find all that stuff. Yeah, I think that's always, always very cool, and I feel like my parents are doing that in reverse with me, where they'll every time they visit they'll bring something from, you know, years ago, just to remind you. Yeah, yeah, just to be like hey, here's something that you've left it at home and like here it is now you have it here and I'm like okay, cool. So most recently I'll give a shout out to to excel, which was a robot that played both both like Trivia tapes where you could like answer trivia questions and choose your own ending tapes, which I thought was the coolest thing. It was like a full story he'd have the different buttons. You could pick what you know what the character did next, and it was as a as a child, I was blown away by it. But yeah, cool, I and I probably still would be as an adult, but I haven't, haven't taken it for a spin yet, since since it's been dropped down here. So if my mom is listening, I apologize. It's been a couple months but we'll make it happen. It'll be a summer or sworry. And one of the other books that you've written. I you did not write it alone. You have all right, you had your daughter's help. Is I cracked? It is. And before we move on from from from the you know the all the documents that in the files, I should say my stepmother, Ellen Shields, with the animals, did a great job of keep all that stuff together and and you know she had a lot to deal with after my dad, but learn the thing she did was take an inventory of everything, and so we're so that was extremely helpful. Oh, on the book. Yeah, the book I wrote with my little daughter, Carson, Carson mccandless. I'm glad you asked about that. That that I think you know. If you look at you know, for for for writers, especially self published writers, one of the things you look at to determine if you're doing a good job or not just, you know, ratings and reviews on good reads and Amazon. I...

...think that's really my best, my best, most like book and it's a book of poems I wrote with my daughter when at a time when she was she was very sick and she was having some some health issues and it was very depressed. And this is not a weekending, this is a like a yearlong thing and and she ended up going to a different school and and she was having a lot of problems and one day I was I was staying at home with her and I was sort of going through some of the things up in her clean up and I found this old book she'd started and when she was old journal and when she was about six, and it was called the trail guide to avoiding death and in the book she had listed monsters that that she was scared of and want, you know, like a you know, a skin walker and a Werewolf and a Kelpie, and you know, she'd write a little she do little pictures of them and and you know, it wasn't a real substantial thing, but but I got to think and maybe what if we tried to write about had the same idea, but try to write about things she was nervous about or afraid of at the age of thirteen or fourteen rather than six? And of course they're much different. Things you worry about thirteen fourteen are much different than werewolves are not always maybe there and maybe there's different to where, maybe in addition to wear, I still kind of worry about what it was. But but so we wrote about body shaming, we wrote about boys and mean girls and social media and that sort of thing, and we wrote it. We wrote these poems, you know, kind of silly, kind of funny, and and people seem to really like it. And you know it's probably for kids. You know it's say, you know, smart fifth graders, sixth graders, you know, seventh grader, maybe by the time you're n eighth grader, year old for but but you know, some people really seem to to relate to it and I've had some teachers use it in class and that sort of thing. So yeah, Carson Claire's trio guide to avoiding death and another unpleasant consequences. That's that's something else that we did I think that we did that about four years ago. I think that's a really good you mentioned the reviews and ratings, but getting schools to use the book, I think it's also a really good validation. Yeah, it's yeah, it's huge and I think I don't this is my bias, but but I think you can, I think you can learn a lot from from even from funny poems that you know, it's you know, teaches some creativity, some fun with the language. Again, my bias. I don't know if that's pedagogically correct. It's but yeah, so, so that is gratify had. You mentioned how you were practicing law and started writing kind of on the side, and I think a lot of people have hopes and aspirations of writing a book some day, but they've got a full time job, they've got kids, I've got lots of distractions and certainly practicing law is...

...no, no easy job. So how did you find the time to write multiple books on the side? Yeah, well, that's a that's a good question and it took a long time. I mean, you know, it's got to be something that you know, you got to want to do it. Maybe maybe even need to do it. I don't know, because it's because it's not easy. You got to squeeze in time. I can never do it before work. I'm terrible. I can't get up, but I am pretty good, you know, at night. I like to work at night and and and you're right, practicing laws is is a pretty demanding thing to be doing. So I would I would squeeze in as much time as I could, as often as I could, and it just seemed like it took forever sometimes. But but you know, we got there. So so be patient with yourself if you're if you're starting that kind of project, don't expect to do it all in three or four sittings. You know, sketch it out right much as you can. You know, on a given day, come back tomorrow, do a little bit more. And I'm a terrible rider, but I'm a I think I'm a decent rewriter. You know, I like to go back and once you get everything together, go back and figure out where you went wrong or what you want have said. That was what I might have said. That was good and worth keeping, and just just work that way and that's you know, it's not. It's it's difficult, difficult project. I mean writing anything is difficult writing anything. You know, s of original and work reading. I think. Yeah, I think that's a good note about the rewriting element of things. To it is to just write the first time and don't you know, don't worry about editing, don't worry about going back, which I know I struggle with sometimes where I'm like, Oh wait, no, I misspelled that, I got to go back, and then I'll just knock me out of the flow of a sentence. Yeah, try and try and over look that. And I think it is at the hemingway quote where it's right drunk at it, sober. Yeah, I think that isn't so yeah, I'm with you. I mean, you know, spelling, the that kind of fix grammar. GRAMMARS overrated. You always speak fixed later. You got it. You got to figure out what's happening and why and who's doing it and who gets affected by it. You know, those are the fun things to figure out. Yeah, I agree. I agree, and I think I, as a self professed Grammar Nerd, I wish sometimes I didn't care as much in them because I'm like it's yeah, I can go back and fix it. It doesn't they perfect the first time at all. Right, Bruce, are almost off the hook, but we always like to wrap up with the top three, and I often ask my count this as well. So I look saying yeah, okay, okay. So you're prepared. That's good. Sometimes sometimes it's still catches people off guards, even when they when they have provided it. So I your top three, your top three missions, events, Eventchi should say, in space exploration, that you're looking forward to in the next few years.

Well, you know, there's that's a I guess I'm kind of prepared for them, but is that there's so much to look forward to. I mean this is an exciting time. All of a sudden, exciting time for a space exploration. You know, we went through this long period of of dormancy, you know, where we didn't even the space shalow one, even with the spacial last flight flu in two thousand and eleven. So to get up to the International Space Station we had to hitch your ride with the Russians, you know, and we paid him a fortune to use the saw used to get up to, you know, what was essentially, at least partly, our own space station. So so now we can use SPACEX and hopefully we'll have you other avenues were getting up there and and so I'm getting off the point. I'm getting on the topic. Be The top three things looking forward to. I'm looking forward to seeing who gets into space first, Jeff Bezos or Richard Branson, and I'm really looking forward to seeing those guys come back safely. I mean, no matter what you think of them as individuals, I really do want to see these these sort of even though they're not technically, you know, big advances for us, because they're there's something NASA was doing sixty years ago. I really want to see these space ters and flights be successful so more people can go up and get that experience. You know, again, it's not very realistic, but I would like to do it one of these days, if I ever have the money. Too. I'm really interested to see how we react to the Chinese space program. All a sudden China's this really robust and somewhat aggressive space power. I mean they have they have a rover on the Mars, on Mars just like we do. They're building a space station or they, I'm sorry, they have a space station. They're visiting their space station. They're going to build it out. The Russians have said they're going to display with them. They have been a very ambitious set of missions coming up in the future and in fact they're talking about going to Mars. It maybe that they get to Mars before we do. So. So how's how's the US going to react to that? How are we going to be? Is it going to be like it was with the Soviets back in s are we going to we're going to find ourselves in a new space race, or is there going to be more cooperation competition? I think that's going to be a sort of a fascinating aspect of international affairs for a while to come. And and and I'm really interested to see. Interested to see what happens with our own sort of man space exploration program not not the space station, but the artist program where we're planning to go back to Mars and and, you know, the sort of still still pretty ethereal hopes of getting to Mars, you know, maybe in nearly early S. I think that's going to be a fascinating endeavor and it's going to be interesting to see how we how we go about that and whether whether the American people...

...have the have the will to finance it. And that's really always been part of the problem. So the three, I hope this is three. Yeah, I'm not sure as three or ten. That's it's not really a hard three. Some people have gone on tills's six or seven or twenty five. So, hi, I don't I don't critique, but yeah, you suck two, three while done. Well, that okay, good, awesome. Well, Bruce. Thank you so much for hopping on and chatting. If people want to check out the book, if they want to see what else you've written, learn more about you, where can they go? Oh well, you know, they can go to I'm good. Yes, that, Joey, it's it's the book is going to be out July thirteen. You can go to Amazon or barns and noble, are in the big online retailers and find it. Wanders all around the incredible true story of astronaut Bruce mccalis, a second in the first time to other flight in space. You ought you should also be able to get it from your from your local bookseller. I know, Joe you and I are here and are here in Austin. I know, but people has ordered some some copies. They should have it and and you know, you can go to good reads and look up Bruce mccanless. You can find some of my books there. And when I say I think you've got all my books there and then, hopefully, yeah, not that there are that many. That sounded like there are lots of others floating around, for yeah or Amazon, and I think I have an author page there. So so, yeah, I appreciate you mentioned in the absolutely and you're even if, even if the books haven't been written yet, you've got you've got all of them there. Some day they'll be there. The current ones are out, are there, and then this sure whats'll be there too. Well, ruse, thank you again for taking the time to chat. This was fantastic. I was real pleasure. I appreciate you have me on and of course we got to end with a Corny joke, and I even made it space themed. And speaking of books, I'm reading a book about anti gravity right now. To tell you, it's impossible to put down. Get after that, people. Okay, that's a good one. Good people, cool things is produced in Austin, Texas. If you were a fan of this episode, go ahead and hit that follow button. That helps more people here the show. As always, you can send me a message Joey at good people, cool thingscom. Thank you to all of the guests who have been on good people, cool things. Check out all the old episodes. Be a good people cool thingscom. As always, thank you for listening and have a wonderful day.

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