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Good People, Cool Things
Good People, Cool Things

Episode 58 · 6 months ago

Traveling Adventures and Inside the Writing Process with Chris Coppel

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

How many times have you used the excuse of “I don’t have time” to avoid getting things done? I know I’ve done it regularly — sometimes I’m procrastinating on something incredibly minor, like cooking dinner or even walking to the mailbox. Because I’m just TOO BUSY, you know?

Well, this episode’s guest is having none of that. Chris Coppel has authored ten novels since the fall of 2019, and he is dropping all kinds of knowledge on how to write efficiently and in volume. 

Chris is an accomplished drummer and guitarist, too, so we’re talking some tunes — and the worst gig he’s ever played. Plus, the number one tip Chris has for writing, and why you should always take the scenic route anytime you travel.

Good people cool things as the codcastfuture and conversations with entrepreneurs, writers, musicians andother creatives get inspired by their stories to do your own cool thing andhere's your host Joey, held welcome to good people. Cool things today is allabout writing. I'm chatting with Chris Compel, author of far from BurdendellLuck, the lodge legacy lakebed and the upcoming liner he's got all kinds ofhorror stories out there and thrillers that will keep you on the edge of yourseat on your toes and turning those pages chrisas born in California andhas spent his time both in the sunshine state. There that's Florida, the GoldenState whatever for California's official name is Spain, France,Switzerland and England, he's also an accomplished drummer and guitarist. Sowe're talking about his worst GIG, which I always love asking and Chrisdoes not disappoint with a fantastic answer, were also chanting through hiswriting process. Some of his inspiration and the tip that he has atthe end of all of his writing sessions that put him up in a good position forsuccess. The next time that he's writing. So you want to stay around forall of that that'll help. Even if you're not writing a book, it'll helpget whatever you need to done as you're. Getting through your day. F You like toget in touch with the show you can reach on on facebook, twitter orInstagram at GPCT podcast. You can also reach out joey at good people, coolthingscom or support the show, via the merge store, good people, coolthingscom shop, a couple of new items coming out pretty soon so pick up ahoodie shirt, hat mug we're all of the above really line up your house withlots of good stuff. Just like this episode, there's lots of good stuff.This conversation with Chris, let's get to it for people who don't know whoChris Compel is. Can you give us your elevator pitch? But can you also tellus the elevator that you're on while you're giving us this pitch I'll, give that a try? I always dreamt of of being a writerwhen I was a child and used to write little stories. Myfather was a very well known writer. He wrote Vertigo, amongst other things andsomehow as hard as I tried to follow a careerin writing ended up following a career in the technical side of film andTelevision. Much like another one of your guests,Craig Lener, who I n actually worked with and was in the Technical OperationGroup of a number of studios and at one point Ho ended up inWashington, DC working in the technical department of the World Bank and theIMF cut to a few years later I find myselfin England I'm trapped here because of Covid, I'm not sure what to do with mylife and something just made me sit down andstart writing, and that was September a year ago and I'm working on my tenthnovel since that time. So how Wel we'll get to all that first,but going way back, you said you know, you've wanted to be a writer, since youwere little. Do you remember the first thing you read that kind of inspiredthat was it? Was It something your dad had written or was it something else? No, I think it was something to do with the lifestyle andalso that's what daddy did. I don't think, there's any more depththan that it was just like. I want to do what daddy does, because I mean I had no idea that itactually involved to work, because all I knew is that e. He would vanish intohis room with his pipe and come back three hours later and spend all daywith me, and it just seemed like you know, that's kind of cool. I wouldn'tmind doing that myself. So do you also use a pipe when you're writing? Oh, no!No Kay! No! I feel like that's. I feel like that'sthe you know the intrigue, I guess or...

...the characterization of the wellW'we've all seen craigs picture yes I's doing it doing us proud he'susing props yeah. I think I drink too much water, while I'm writing that Iwouldn't I wouldn't- or I guess to your coffee sometimes to, but I just have to keep taking the pipe o.that's that's better than the alternative. I mean you know so manywriters drink something a little heavier. That's true, that is true.What is it you write drunk and edit sober? That's the old, Sayng yeah, fantastic, fantastic, have as far asyour dad, and you did. He kind of give you any any guidance onyour writing process or well, just kind of no been there nice no bu by hepassed when I was sixteen. By which time I was a rock drummer inEngland, and my band was called Monk Silver and we were touring and we hardly talked for the two yearsbefore he died. I maybe we did, but I mean not any depth whatsoever. I'm notsure I had any depth in me at that time. Okay, so we're going to we're going toveer to rockdrumming for a second because always love chatting music. Canyou tell us about the worst Gig you've played yeah? Probably we supported lead Zeppelin in the bathuniversity wow and we were not the the advertised band.The the advertised band couldn't show up, and we were a last minute and mymain drum kit was actually on in a rehearsal hall on the other side oftown and all I had was this strange collection of bits and pieces, and we got to the GIG in he back of a FordEscort van, which is the English way and set up, and my symbol stands had all been bent atsome point, and so, if I hit them too hard Y, they started tilting and wouldgo over. So the poor roady ended up sort of sitting in front of me having to hold the symbol stands withno air protection, while I wailed and unfortunately thatwas the time when Long Drum Solos were the thing GingerBaker had done toad and from that time, on, every drum soul had to be twelveminutes minimum. But Man Hi'm, just just picturing thatand it sense yeah like drums, are so loud regardlessyeah and to not to not have it your Protectoh I play. I pay, play anelectric sat now and it's so I can tone it down and not deathen myself yeah. It's a you still get all the allthe benefits of it. I think a lot, a lot less painful on the years.My wife can't stand it because, while I'm, you know, I've got reverb and allsorts of things going on in my head and I'm doing some incredible moves,especially on the you know. The Lower Tom Toms and Sall she's hearing isClick Clack, ICK, clas she's, holding up a lighter, yeah. Okay, we'll get back to writing. Sincethat's that's what you've been you've been at for since September, twentynine teen, you've ritten ten novels yeah a lot of people, don't even writeone novel. So what has spurthis productivity? I started. I was watching CNN one morning and itwas. They were reporting on a particularly aggressive rally in the upcoming election campaign, and I won't mentionany names of which which candidate, but it was. I just found it upsetting that the wayth t trying to motivate people...

...who I just couldn't believe, reallyfelt the way he was trying to get them to think, andI turned off the the TV and I pulled out my mack and just had this urge to suddenly writesomething and I wrote an and I knew the tidle was called luck and it wasbasically a from the time this baby is born.Everything that happens is perceived as just being incredibly lucky, whereas infact he had a power to influence people into believing whatever he was sellingand he went through real estate and went through various other things andended up in politics and the more power he got, the morecriminally insane he became and his actions became more violent and it's a it's asemi horror, thriller and I mean I ended up. It was close to ninety thousand words in threemonths and I that was published in Chamber of the following year and then I thought well, that's it.That was pretty good, but I had this this sound silly, but I had this likebad aftertaste and I felt I damaged Karma by writing this, because it was his character was very dark and it tookme into some very dark places. Writing it. So I said I just felt like I wantto write something fun and I want to write kind of a semicomedic horror book about a Scottish Hunting Lodge whereall the trophies and Memorabili as and taxi dermeayed animals and everythingfinally take revenge on the hunter hunters but tongue and shake, and I ended up, writing the lodge and which was published by a differentpublisher in the same month, which was kind of weird. They both came out thesame time and I thought then that's kind of itbecause I couldn't, I didn't, have any more inspiration or anymore ideas andCrig, and I were talking- and he said you have got to read, especially ifhorrors your thing. You've got to read Stephen King's book on writing, wish I'd, never heard of, and StevenKing as my favorite author, so that was that was a bit of a Fot Pa, but I I read it and it told me something that seems pretty obvious. But to me it wasn't andwas a revelation of all revelations that if you're going to be a writer-and you want to write seriously, there's no such thing of walking arounddoing everything, but writing waiting for that inspiration to suddenly hityou. You may get a tiny concept you mean, but I was waiting for the entirestory to just download and you know I could just transcribe it, and I read the book and Learnand learned awhole bunch of ways to do it and the Hidden Muse andall these sort of fascinating sort of things that just right and if you havethe ability it will just come pouring out but right every day, if you can'tthink of anything right anyway, rigt an overdescriptive scene right, the ending,Wrigt, a short story just right and it will take you somewhere. I didn't really buy that and but I putit into effect immediately and started on my third book, which was calledliner, which is coming out in three weeks. I think- and it's by far my favorite book, of whatI've written and is bizarre and sure enough. I mean my poor wife, becauseduring lockdown all we've been able to do is at the end of the day at aboutfive o'clock is go out for a long walk and we used to go out for walks andjust talk about you know like the world e universe, with whatever it was now.It's like just me trying to explain the...

...oddity of me sitting down having noclue where I'm going and I'm just suddenly typing a new character, and Idon't know why and then three days later in the walk, I t that character.I rert, you know why. I wrote him, apparently it's because he was going to and I find that it I saying amuse is kind of a catchole, but it there has to be a word for it becauseit doesn't make any sense. I sit down and I come up with two thousand words a day: The that weren't there before that I had noinkling of where the story was going. When I started writing liner, it was nowhere near t the book or thestory. I it was going to be just a ghost storyon a ship and ended up being something absolutely completely different and tentimes I think ten times better and I found the ever since every everysingle book I've written and I'm still, when I finish, one he've gone throughfive, six, seven edits and it's pretty much ready to go ontothe next stage of getting it out there. I start having this dread of sittingdown and doing the next one, and is there going to be anything there andI'm writing one now called lunacy, which is the first one where I've sat down comfortable, that it's going to just come out just aD and don't worry about not knowing at what's going to come out, because ifsomething will come out and T- and it has I'm, I'm I'm aeighteen thousand words. I've been at it two weeks and you know I'm very, very happy. I reallyempathize with that feeling I think of. Is there anything left, and so that'sawesome to hear that switch of like hey. I got this well, the scary thing. Idon't a lot of writers have notes or cards and their wall is full of themand they plot developments and arrows and everything else. My notes are on my ipad notes and FFOR luck. I had ten pages for for thelodge. I had two pages. I now have two lines, and maybe this one I've taken no other notes, I'mjust carrying on. I know vaguely the ending, but I'm notsure- and quite often I'm really decided on my ending and that's whereI'm going and then when it comes to you know the final turnoff, where you knowI go into the desert or I go into the hills, I'm just ready. You know I'vetaken taken off down to the TSHIRT EAD in the desert and suddenly that we'regoing the other way. It's like okay, fun ride. Let's see where we go. Do you have? Are you just jotting thesenotes or do you like, when you're out on a walk or you voice memoing? It areyou like, whatever inspiration hits, knocking them down I'll rate them down, they can come at any time and thertherethey're, sometimes they're big and it's a directional change. Sometimes it's just a tiny funny,little idea or a little little. You know thing to add. Sometimes it's chronological problem that I've createdand if suddenly comes to me you he can't do that he's and I you know I'll just go in and fixit, but all the good stuff comes just while I'm sitting looking at the screenand just you know each day. As I finish for the day, I leave a one or two word note at theend of where I am of what the next...

...scene should be, and that's all I really do. I check mynotes to see if there's anything I've come up with that needs to take me somewhere or that needs to be.But I will follow that. Those two word notes which might be you know: viewhouse whatever it is, and so far that'sthat's working for me and I feel like I'm cheating, because so many people dig so deeply mind you. My books couldjust be crap. We doN'tno R, not athere's, always that possibility aswell, but so many people in some that I knowreally agonize over getting their story completely lineatedbefore they put Penn to paper for the for thefirst time, and I can't do that because I'm as I don't have a clue where I'm goingand I've learned that you know I'm not the I'm, not the best driver, whoeverit is, it's driving needs to be doing it. I'm much happier to follow that personthan an he know. If I had a rigid form to fuck, let me let me ve be reallygood example. My father wrote a screenplay seventy years ago and I been thinking it would make aninteresting modern book and modern novel. So two novels ago, I I gave it a stab and it was really difficult because I had no problem creating the modernversion of it at completely different characters, different time frame,everything else, but I had a roadmap that I had to stickto you know I was. I was going from Cityato city B and I had to pass through these three towns on the way and if ithadn't been my father's work, I probably wouldn't have held it in suchreverence and just gone off onto somet wherever it was wanting to take me, butthis one I felt I needed to to do ith then, and that book's calledlike I haven't, started marking it yet because I'm marketing yet because I'mstill I'm still fiddling but out. That was difficult and that'swhat most people go through with writing in's TS. So I much prefer formy weird eerie method, yeah that it just reminded me of a roadtrip. Over the summer were we went out to west Texas we're trying to hit MARFAbig band, all the o good sites out there and there's it no longer exists.It got taken down because I guess too many people were grafeeting, it and youknow being dangerous around it. So the person wh whud initially created it,but it was the smallest target in the world. It was, you know, no bigger thanlike a shed that you'd see in someone's Backcar, but had the target logo on it,and it was just maybe like ten miles down the roadfrom where we were going just like a little offshoot, but totally got mixedup via Google maps pointing us another way and then just meandered around forso long eventually found the target, and I almost feel like it was betterthat way than I just gone there directly because it was like. Oh, wesaw all these other things. We like spotted a lot of other kind of, likeyou know, small West, Texas, enjoyable things, and I was like I'm glad we didthat, even though I'd love to stretch my legs like forty five minutes ago,because we've been driving for a while, but it made the payoff so much moreworth it. When, when I go when I travel in those days when we used to travel my wife and I I went to go somewherenew, I never buy a guide. I never chake a tour. I never do anything we if it'sin a city, we just start walking, and you know if we try to stay away fromdangerous areas, but I mean we find so many amazing things and if it's, ifit's a different part of more like...

France, which is easy to get to fromhere, we just know where we're going to endup but find whatever root we feel like. And if we see a turnoff that looks coolor a bridge, and where does that go? We just go and these poor people who get it get onfly over to Europe and do twelve cities and fourteen days on a bus and go home thinking they've seenanything they couldn't have seen in Vegas quite od. Quite frankly, just a shame: Yeah Yeah! I I don't know how people do that,because t's, it is just like so surface level and I feel like you're, notgetting the INS and outs of stumbling into a random restaurant or randomcorner of town, and maybe I mean his perfect example. The last the lastinternational trip I took was to Ireland and and the UK and in Irelandjust happened to stop in a bar and there was a guy doing old Irish folktails. He was just like this. He was probably like in his s already and justhad all these stories from growing up in Ireland and wow was like you know,half half truth, half like folk, Lore kind of thing and he's just coming andhe's doing all these wild voices and it just it's like a random Tuesday nightand if we hadn't stumbled into that bar. That was not really in, like the mainpart of town. Never would have heard that it was so much fun. Noh, that'sgreat, my wife, and I did we had one of those we went to Oxford the for the firsttime. This is quite a few years ago and we didn't drive. We took this funny old,local bus that we've had to change once or twice, and we were only like tenmiles away, but it was surprisingly difficult to get to and when we gotthere, there were all these roots that Youw're supposed to take and they weremarked out in thei were tours and- and we said no just just not going to dothat- and it was the week before the students came back. So there were alot of kids n in the gown and the CAP and ready ready for for the start, and we just went meandering where weshouldn't have gone. thertheir guests cannot just walk through the within Oxford. It's a university townand there's. I don't know how many universities, but the entrances are notlike an American University. It's one like small arch that was built in thesixteen century or something and it'll say what it is. But it says no visitorswill we just ignored that sign completely and we would walk throughand we were walking down these. These colinnades we've seen in movies forforever and we walked. I think t this was in new college. NewCollege is was built in like sixteen twenty seven or something we walkeddown and to. We saw the chapel up ahead and we went in the chapel and there was a a man at at a grand piano, four singers and achellist, and it was the most beautiful, soundI've ever heard in my life and the acoustics were, and they were justpracticing and it was like you know, we'd neverwould have done that and then, when we'd left, we thought it's. You know it's time fora pint and there awe'd passed all these very sortofturisty. Looking things andthere was this tiny alley that looked like it went nowhere, but it obviouslywent somewhere and it was right in the middle of the college area. So I'd ledClaire Who's used to me doing this, and it was all cobblestones that were wereworn down and shiny and we went down and then turned a corner, and there wasthe oldest pub in literally the oldest pub in Cambridge and it's not on thetourist APSID and it's you walk in and I have to do. I had to do this and afire going in the corner. I mean it's much better to explore yourself. Absolutely, Oh, that's so fun. What didyou order? What was your pient of...

...choice back then? It was probably Lagger, Stella Stell Arta, which is over here. That's considered the thelogger lout beer, lout being the you know them at soccer matches who drink a fewtoo many and get a bit violente just a tradition. I want to go back a little bit to you mention how you have multiple bookscoming out, but with different publishers. So can I think, for writers? Obviously writing. The book is onlyhalf the battle, there's also the entire getting it published themarketing elements to it. So can you kind of take us through your processfor that? Well, I'm. The first book was: it's called traditional publishing,which is where they pace basically take ninety percent of the profits and takeyou know forever to publish and leave you out of it entirely, and I didn't like that experience verymuch and that's the hardest one. To get I mean to try and get a publisher topublish, you is almost impossible and then you'retreated unless you're stepen king you're treated very poorly. So in talking to Craig he he wastalking about self publishing and the way that he's found that works best, and I spoke to a bunch of people inEngland and did a lot of research and found a place that are very choosy who they take and theydo a partnership publishing and they charge what I thought was verylittle to do a spectacular job, and that includes marketing, and they do absolutely everything foryou and including the story edit. I mean all the differentedit stages, the proof, reading stages. You know everything and I was very happy with with them andthe way the way they handled it, and the second book was was done the same way and then I found a company to give the book alittle extra marketing push called Publishing Push, which is a good name and while talking to their theiremanaging director Andal, maybe the only one in the office but he's called amanging director. He was telling me that you know wepublish as well, we do publish and we do a different type of publishing. It's not a partership publishing at all,because publishing I forgot to tell you, the puthe partnership publisher retains fifteen percent which, comparedto the to the big boys, is nothing this company. If you sign on for theirmarketing package, which I was going to do anyway, they do everything and take it right right to to Ebook and andPod printon demand, cover art and Hoe and hold your handthrough the whole thing. I mean toy, ask you about everything and they werehalf the price of the other ones and and they retain zero. There's a part ofme that you know there's two books that I have put aside, that I think itwouldbe nice to have them published, because I don't mind if I lose control and it's for some reason there. I still have that slight after taste ofa stigma that self publishing is a bad thing, but I think it depends on thecompany. If you, if you look online and put self publishing problems, they willcome up with the companies. I will mention them, but...

...they're, just nasty people when you're sending off samples of yourwriting to publishers. You find them in a book like writers, an artists who, by the way this book is publishedby the People who publish most of my books little irony there, the you'll find publishers who are acceptingsubmissions and you'll enter their name on Google and you'll click, the one that comes upfirst and you'll start this, and I did this once you start going through theprocess of getting everything they want together to send it to them, and thenyou find that's not them at all. It's one of oneof these people who have basically hijacked the first spot and they're they're, one of the ones thatcome up on the top of every list of don't go near them. They don't answeryour phone calls the arts, bad the printings bad. You know everything theytook forever. They charge you five times what anyone else does and theyretain ninety five percent like a real publisher, it's like what so tthere's very bad ones, but if, ifyou feel in control enough to work with someone over everything, I mean thelittle blurb on the back of the book. You know the back art the front art the style of text, everything if you'recomfortable with doing that. These companies that are intermedoryand look them up, get look a them up on trust pilot find the ones that are well reviewed. Publishing push has ahundred percent five star rating, so I mean that you know they're a goodone and my first experience with them is just released a couple of days agocalled Lake bed, which is a creepy one. When I spent Isand ta year two years ago, in the High Desert ofUtah- and we were T- we were an hour and a halffrom at the next big town and the village, the town was, fourthousand people spread out a lot of farm country. It was at right on theArizona, northern Arizona border, and it was something out of a movie. It was very, very mormon, but notfundamentalisty t. These were sort of very varied about very good people.Very good family people really can't say a bad word about any oany of the ones I met so helpful, but at night is the as the light started tochange all these. These little canyons and and little gaps and narrow thingsand caves up in the hills, because we were surrounded by Red Rock. You knoweverywhere starts getting really creepy, and this is before I was writing, but Ijust thought it would be kind of a neat idea to do something that goes on upthere and at the same time, Claire wasworking at an animal sanctuary and we went up there number of times a one point went to where they bury the the the R theiranimals that die, and I know it's a bit pet cemeteriish,but it's there was. There was something really wonderful about that, but also,obviously a little bit creepy in, and so somehow I, the writing. Gen, Ididn't know H. I had kind of swallowed these little nuggets of of interest andLakebed is a combination of people following a too perfect dream ofwhen everything in their life's going wrong in La they get. This offer tocome up and join the sanctuary, and then...

...things go a bit badly. Well Fantasin congrets on that launch,which at least right now is the most recent one. But in a couple of weekswho knows it might be yeah like why an old old fairy winer will be out one of the most exciting things that mywife and I did a couple of days ago. An when I say we I mean she with merooting on from the sidelines. is she built a website from scratchhaving having never done so and used one of the top companies thatwalk you through it? But it's hard to describe how much theydon't let you know what to do when you're trying to there's an expectationof having a background in wire framing or something because well, both readthis of the instructions Aguy. I don't know what that means, but she sat in there diligently andshe's working from home every day after five. She would spend like an hour anda half just doing this, and my website Chris copplcom is now is now up andrunning, and so all my books are on there and so some redeos and things yeah the website design. I I want to say I have like a rudimentaryknowledge of putting a website together, but the people that can really do it toit from scratch. For me, it's any time there's an error message of just howvague it is, and I don't understand what the problem is: It's just an Arrorcode, but that Eraco can mean like one of ten things and there's no context.It's always great wel we were trying. I mean we were trying to do something sosimple. We are trying to line up all the books and and each time a new onecomes out. We wanted to add it, which means the size would obviously shrinkof all of them. So Claire Shrunk, we had three and we needed to add lakebed.So she shrunk luck and when she shrunk luck, theother three went bwink and went double thesize and it was like Wakamole she. You knowhe moved one and it popped up again over here and and she somehow workedout it took about a week of learning what spacers were and how to use thesenasty little things to be able to do this, but even now,when she goes in and makes one little change, she wanted to do a little blackbar at the bottom and she did it and then she clicked save n and the BOT topbar went purple Amon. An my name dropped to that size is like well. Why ilove? The love, the Simplee Yeah lovethe simplicity of websites. Now that that's another good elementthat I think obviously people, despite the saying of don't judge a book by itscover people still do it, and especially if people are looking atan online website I'll give book shop, Dot, Org a shout out which donuts to tolocal book stores- and you know you're scrolling through oreven at a physical book store you're looking at you know several books onthe shelf. So for you, what makes up the elements of a good cover? I, like simplicity and power. I don't know if you've looked up any ofmy books. This is the haunted one where the all the member animal killed. Memorabilia comesalive and that's what they came up with. I sent them something completelydifferent because it was it was at Christmas and I sent them. You can go to stock images or any ofthese places and find things that are close and then tellthem what you want changed, but I sent them a mask. It was a reindeer mask for aparty as it was Christmas and I just said just have that in the center withone red it was a golden colored mess with one little blood drop coming outout of the eye,...

...and they paid no attention to mewhatsoever and did this, and but this stands out I mean it's a great yeah, the new one which is lake bed. We were trying. I was working withtheir artist for probably two weeks back and forth.I had this vision. I wanted. If you read the story, it's back when native Americans were livingon the land, something terrible happened to them there, which, which created the whole problem in theLakebread Canyon, and I wanted just a super black lake, with the shadow ofthe red rocks in a canyon and the incredible night sky that you'd have inthe desert and it almost be k a geometric shape and the starshfield up above to be reflecting perfectly off the lake. So it's almostDSA mirror and coming from the center of the lake.I just wanted the tiniest wisp of small fire tornado and no matter how. I don't think the personhad ever seen a Red Rock Canyon or possibly a starfield like that andit and it we weren't quite getting there and I said well look if we got to a point that e went okay,let's just do that and thite was was close enough and itwould have been fine, but it didn't. There was no wil factor and then the producer said what what do you wantfor the back and I said yea I was SA. I was thinkingabout this last night and like what I thinkwul be really cool is if wecould have a dream: Catcher, a really nice dream, catcher on the back, buthave one half of it be charred as if it'sbeen in a fire and she went oh, my God that soundswonderful anyway, so she sent me the first sample of the full book with theDream Dream Catcher here and the the the not quite working vista of theCanyon, and I said to where I know this: This willdrive you crazy because we've been doing this forever, but I think thatdream catchers aamazing that she's created, can we swap said I'm so gladyou said that because I feel the same way. So it's now this black matbackground with this beautiful colorful dream, catcher and she's created alittle sort of frame around just a golden little line frame around theside of the book and the tail of tail feathers overlapped. The frame they stick outslightly across, but one side is charred and it s there's nothing else,no explanation very, very simple and incredibly powerful, but they some people say it doesn'treally matter if the books good and I think that's nonsense, because evenonline, I look at the at the cover, even even if it's that that big I'm onthe device I'm looking at, I will blow it up and I will look at it and thathelps, for instance, if I want to get haunting a good ghost story and if Isee another eerie, looking house shot from that angle with a skull in thecloud, I'm you know, I'm just not going to go for it. I want to see somethingcompletely different and those are the ones I'll go for. SoI think it matters a lot of people when they go with thefull self publishe route, which is where you do everything yourself, including try and find a stock imageand build your own cover page. Don't do it. If you do nothing else,...

Thatyou can find artists and sites thatwill do you. A custom cover page for two hundred and fifty three hundredolars and that's going to that's going tosell the book almost more than anything else. You're going to do. YEAHT also have have a vision becausethey may not have one. They may read your book and have a completelydifferent vision of what you want to get across he than you do, but you'rethe author yeah. I totally agree, I think, and even I would't even say,maybe even less than two hundred fifty dolars. If your really STRAPP him forcash like a site like Fiver I've gotten some designs for shirtsfrom there in the past it was thit was twenty five dollars and then you can.You can choose to tip the person. So I was like you are very much undersellingyourself, so I will give you some some extra money here for five designs andthat's just like, and I was so impressed like there was so one of themis being out here in Austin. We love our Caso at her. So it's an everythingwill be okay, so sure, and I gave her what I thought were like real, justsilly ridiculous directions. I'm like. Can you make a case of swimming poolwhere there are some chips jumping into it? I don't see anything wrong withthat. She put it together and I was just soimpressed that I was like thank and she's, not, I think, she's based inPakistan. So not you know, theyr not familiar with or swimming cool, so I was just like. Can you can youdenise and then for the other ones, just so vague and she nailed them OtIman? I hope there was one oin diving board. I'm saeying that now yes,there's one well one jumping off the sign: okay, the so as I as if a diright board, but yeah,and one of them has sunglasses on it's perfect. It's so magical, so so muchbetter than if I had tried to do it. It would just a a butch of triangles thatlookd terrible well Chris, your omost off the hook,but we always like to wrap up with the top three and so for you. How fittingthe top three horror novels number one we mentioned it before Imentioned it before- has to be Stephen King's pet cemetery. It's I've read this since taking more of aninterest in writing. I've read up on his philosophy and the problems he had writing it, because it's incrediblydark the subject matter involving the child and ever everything he took it toa level that no harrwriter had ever done before, as he's done many times,but this was this was into a darkness that was, you know, pitch black fromwhich many may not recover, and but it is, it was the most terriflying book.I'd ever read a lot of his books. I mean shining, I'membarrassed to say I read it when it first came out and it was definitely creepy, but Iwasn't scared. Pet cemetery had me terrified, and- and that's really, I think what what you want another one- and this is not one thatyou would normally consider as as a horror book but Dean Coonsas Watcher, which involves which I love. Itinvolves a golden retriever which has some powers and is incredibly creepy and incrediblyscary and wonderfully written and a wonderful butthe othe owner of the dog. They havea an interaction that that's just incredible and the with as a as someonewho really loves dogs, which obviously he does, but the book just gets scarierand scarier and scarier, and you don't know where it's going, and I've readthat one probably thirty years ago, and it still stayed with me, the third one. Actually I got to seewhat the title is. It's right here...

...is an author that not everyone knows about, thoughhe's I mean you think, I'm prolific with this. This guy's done, I think, toa year for just unbelievable length at length of time. Is the influence bybenthly little very, very imaginaive, heart very sharp. He doesn't. He doesn't pull anypunches, it's their profane there they getreally quite nasty, but but very well written and very,very absorbing, and you just this particular one was one as it's onmy top Threeh list. It's it! I'm it's in a tiny town in the middle ofArizona. In the way in the desert, a man by a circumstance goes and stayswith with relatives as an alien presence urrives in thetown, and it just from that. You wouldn't think it'screepy, but it builds and build and builds word by word and till abouthalfway through. First of all, you can't put it down,but you also can't sleep, so I mean that's my criteria I want. Iwant that if I'm going to read a scary but book, I want to be scared. Yeah, I think that's fair! So do you?Do you read them at night, then so that you you can't sleep or do you try to doit earlier in the day? So maybe you can get. My ritual is that I read with my Morning Cup of coffee, which isat at about nine o'clock in the morning. Actually, what I'm saying about eighto'clock n, the worn I read a D and fiddle around for about two hoursbefore ive, settled down to writing and and if I do read it at night, I won't reada horror story, and so I'm yeah I'm too susceptible yeah. I can't I can't do it D. anything, that's making me think toomuch before bed. I'm like. I don't want this. I don't want my brain doing doingthat many scircle a couple of the ones I've written and the one I'm writingnow will be. I do get to the point where the spook factor of what I'mwriting is creeping me out, and there was there was one point whenI was writing. I think I think it was the lodge. Nowasn't it. It was legacy that it gets very scary at a certain point and whenthe thing the little things start to happen and people have read this, a itreally creep. Does that that section gets you creep down and you staycreeped out, but it creaped me upt to the point that the house was startingto scare me a little bit and because we live in a two hundred and fifty yearold, little Engl English house in the countryside, and it's got all sorts ofcreeks and groans and funny spots, and you know so well you're doing something right thatif your own house is starting Tho r, yeah awesome Oll Chris, you mentioned itearlier, but if people want to visit, you want to pick up one or perhaps allof your books. Where can they find you Chris coppelcom, the newly minted Chris gest and fromthere there's also rush out the? U and there's links to facebook and instagramand twitter from there as well. So that's the best place to start awesome. Chris Compel. Thank thank youfor hopping on. This was a blast hope you get some good good music plan intoday. In addition, I to all of that good writing and, of course, we got toend up with a Corny joke, as we always do I'll make it topical. Since I havethis this Barid on me, I actually I actually didn't like the spirit atfirst, but then it grew on me good after I today peopl good people coolthings it's produced in Austin Texas,...

...if you were a fan of this episode, goahead and hit that follow button that helps Mor people here. The show, asalways even send me a message. Joey ask good people cool thingscom. Thank youto all of the guests who have been on good people, pool things check on Molli,gon and episodes be a Good Pupi cool thingcom. As always. Thank you forlistening and have a Wonderful Day.

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