Good People, Cool Things
Good People, Cool Things

Episode 104 · 6 months ago

104: Making STEM Subjects Accessible and Using Authenticity as Currency with Chris Emdin

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Have you ever said things like "I'm not a science person" or "I can't do math"? Those types of phrases are actually be holding us back from achieving our goals, and they sure aren't helping the generations coming after us.

Chris Emdin, PhD, is the founder of HipHopEd.com and the author behind STEM, STEAM, Make, Dream: Reimagining the Culture of Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathwhich is making STEM more accessible to all cultures and socioeconomic backgrounds.

We're chatting all about his new book, why it's important to reach out to people that interest you, and some of the great artists—and lyrics—in hip-hop.

Good people cool things as a podcast feature and conversations with entrepreneurs, writers, musicians and other creatives. Get inspired by their stories to do your own cool thing. And here's your host, Joey held. Welcome to good people, cool things and taking a deep breath, because we've got a lot to cover today. Today's guest is Dr Christopher Emden, who is the author of the new book stem, steam, make dream, reimagining the culture of Science, technology, engineering and math. And this is not Dr Emden's first book. He has also written ratchetemic, reimagining academic success, and plenty of other titles. So we're getting into a few of the books, but of course this is the newest one, is the baby. So we've got to dive into how we can make stem and steam subjects more popular among kids, more engaging, more entertaining, more valuable to them, because they need to embrace it at an early age to really have an interest for it. And if you're not inspired by the end of this conversation again, I don't know what to tell you, because Chris mden is of super enthusiastic, passionate, engaging guy. LOVES CHATTING WITH HIM. We talked about quite quite a bit. It's little USC talk. For any any fellow trojans out there. I did not graduate from your say, my sister did so almost by association there. There's lots of good stuff. We're also talking about the importance of a nice looking cover when you're writing a book. So if you're in the middle of writing a book, you want to listen to what Chris has say. Is actually probably the best description and of what a cover like how you should embrace designing a cover. From anyone that I've talked to, I really like the way he put it and I'm not going to spoil it, because then you wouldn't listen to the rest of the episode, and that's what a podcast is all about. If you like to get in touch with the show, you can reach out via facebook, twitter or Instagram at GPCT podcast. You can also support the show. Had An over to good people cool thingscom pick up a copy of my book. You can visit the shot. Get yourself a nice cozy hoodie. It's very cold in Austin as I record this, although it might be a little warmer by the time we're all listening to it. But Hey, you still want to be cozy as you're cuddled up and listen to this fantastic conversation with Chris. For people who aren't familiar with you, can you give us your name and your elevator pitch? Can you also tell us the type of elevator we're running on? Hot Good Question. My name is Christopher Emden. I am currently a professor of education at the University of Southern California, the Robert a Naslin and Dow Chair. I am an educator and I'm also a hiphop head. I'm a sociologist and a psychologist and a teacher. I am a mixture of all complex things, with a passion for science, technology, engineering and mathematics, and I brought all those things together into this book called stemp Steam Make Dream that I'm hoping we'll talk about today. What we can talk generally, it's just about my work and you know, my life and my mission in the world wishes to make education more equitable and to make science, engineering and mathematics more democratic. Fantast we're definitely going to...

...talk about the book, but first I gotta say because my sister also went to USC so I gotta say fight on it. You cannot not say it. Fight On't. Indeed, I have a couple of USC shirts and I'll sometimes I'll forget I'm wearing them and I'll, you know, I'll go out to like the grocery store or something and I remember I was at some sporting event like down here in Texas and had my USC basketball shirt on and I was walking back up to my seat like from the the main concourse and a guy just like stuck out his two fingers at me but didn't say anything. That was fair. It's very confused for a while. Then it he kind of like glanced down at my shirt. I was like, Oh, yeah, yeah, you're right, yeah, phtop us, Dude. It's new for me too. So previously I was professor at Teachers College at Columbia University, and my appointment at us he just started a couple weeks ago and already I've gotten the fight on yelled at me, and so I'm getting acclimated to it as well. It's an adjustment for sure. Version it is. You mentioned the new book stems team make dream reimagining in the culture of Science, technology, engineering and math, which, first all, I love the name. I think that's fantastic and I love the subject matter of it too, because I do think these are I mean I'm not the only one. A lot of people think these are important, but they're not always the most appreciated subjects by kids in school, and a lot of times it's not through any fault of their own. It's more just like the the way they're presented can sometimes be super dry and boring and things like that. So why is now the right time for this book? I mean, we live in a world right now where we need a scientifically literate populace. Folks are making awful decisions related to climate change. People are so fearful of basic science and making poor decisions because they don't trust science. The general population is not critical or thoughtful or reflective, doesn't really engage in research, does not believe in experiments, and I feel like it's a function of the fact that a wide swath to our population just doesn't engage in science or Matt they've been told from early on that it's only for the best the brightest, and those best and brightest folks are only folks who can memorize, and the rest of the population who have the potential to engage these disciplines really need it. So we're just in this moment in the world where we need a population who can engage in science, who scientifically literate. And then also we have like millions of jobs across this country that go unfilled every year because we don't create enough young people who are successful in these disciplines. So something's got to give and I just want to contribute to that conversation and saying what has to give is how we present these topics, how we introduce them to young people, how teachers teach, how parents suck to their kids about it, how, like older brothers, something there, there, there, they're siblings about it. Well, our relationship to stem just has to change in order for us to be able to, you know, change the tie because it's going in the wrong direction. What did you learn while you're putting this book together? Oh my gosh, so much. So, like, I interviewed like all my heroes, so Jakin...

Frank, who is a noball prize winner, and chemistry, and Neil degrass, Tyson, and Ron Eglasses, an eth the mathematician. Like I interviewed all these super cool people and I realize that many of these amazing science people or math people were not that when they were in school. They kind of stumbled into it later on, and the reason why they're so great and stem right now it's because they were able to utilize their creativity and innovation and imagination that they did not get a chance to use when they were in school in science, once they got to Grad School. And you know, my whole thing is always like wow, look at these geniuses who kind of stumble into this later on in life. But for most people, once they're turned off, they never get a chance to just discover it again and graduate school or, you know, stumble into it, while I do in research. It's for me it's like, how are we intentional about allowing the majority of the population to be able to find the passion for the discipline early enough where you don't have to wait till you stumble into Grad School to get there? And that, in many ways, is my story. You know, I didn't like them all through middle school or high school. I got to Undergrad and got lucky that I was sort of volunteering and a science lab studying the ideology of schizophrenia, and when I got to the lab it was so amazing, was so fun actually have to do things and I was like, why did they show me this part when I was in school? And so I like my life's work is to show all the kids all the cool arts as early as possible and, as I assume, that's a big component of making this more accessible, to give them that early exposure to it. Correct. Oh, absolutely. And I mean I wrote the book and You know, I've written previous book. You know, I just wrote another book bracademics Reimagine Academic Success, and that book is about like being ratchet and academic, you know, being a little loud, abrasive and and and, you know, and and for both, like I am and still being like an intellect. And this book is like the part two of that book. And I wanted to make it readable. Like the book has like cool pictures and a you know, a nice shiny cover and a page were just a cool quote. And it was important to make the book a metaphor for how I think, think science and tech and math should be taught. And so I use the book as a metaphor for how we teach and I made it accessible, I made it reasonable, readable, I made it interesting, I made a cute at least I think it's cute, and and I wanted that to be the message I gave the world, that I can talk about stem and have an accessible book and it didn't have to be dragonistic filled with citations that was turning people off, but rather something inviting, like these disciplines should be. Can we get a scoop? Obviously don't give away the whole, the whole book, because we still want people to read it. But for someone that like, let's say, you know, I hate like I'm okay with math, but I hate engineering, I hate to technology, I hate science, like what...

...what can I expect to kind of turn my viewpoint around? You know, I turn. The book is written in these sort of four sections. So the first one is the stem. I talked about the history of them, how it came to be the fact that, like, these disciplines are just brought together arbitrary even though they're framed as though they are like the cousins of the intellectual you know, it's like now it's just randomly put them together. I tell a little bit about my story, which I think is interesting. You know, kids from the Bronx to New York City who never was supposed to get a college degree, let alone become a sciences or an educator and how I how I found myself instem and an education. Then I write about steam, like the need to incorporate the arts, but not just art, Art and culture, and I talked about how to do that, talk about make, like maker culture, and making and doing and creating and being inventive, and I thought about the most important thing ever in stem, which is that this act of radical dreaming and activating the radical imagination, and might give examples of how to do all those things. I get stories and quotes and this is a look. This is a cool book, man, and I hope people would dig it and you know it, and passed along, also like passing to your teachers in your life and passing through the parents in your life, because I think there's something in it for everyone. And you would mention that you gave it a nice shiny cover as well, which I agree. I think the cover of really of all your books, I think, a really eye catching and that's something I'm just realizing this now. I've asked this question to other authors before around cover design, but for an audio only podcast, perhaps this is a dumb question, but I think it's a fun creative way to to see how well, you can kind of describe things while, you know, talking about a very visual looking thing. But again, like people, you know, if they're passing a book in a bookstore, their look scrolling through online, like it's probably going to be next to other books, and so that cover really does have to stand out. And I think your your book covers are certainly different between each other, but I think they're there's like a couple of sort of similarities and that their eye catching and you like you're able to like even know if I have a word for it, it's like an intangibility type of thing of like, no, it's a real thing, man, it's a real thing. It was intentionals and deliberate. You know, your book covers like your outfit. You know I mean I'm a firm believer and esthetics. I'm a style and not not really a fashion guy, but, like you know, there's a way that I present myself in the world. I love cool fedoras and and, you know, old wrist watches and you know, there's a particular esthetic that I have and I want my book still also be the same way. It's like, you know, it has to represent the ideas in a book, has to the book of has to represent the imagination of the author. That has to have some colors, some styles and because as is got to make you want to read it. And for me I think about my book covers as like, you know, it's really cool person that you would not know they were cool...

...if they didn't attract you to them. So to carvers are like a really cool outfit man, and I'm glad you noticed that. The covers of my books are distinct from each other, but they all have like color, they all have like really interesting fought and I think that the covers are interesting because what I've spent the time, the rite in a book is interesting and I want whoever passes by the cat like this guy really thought about this and and I want to convey that sentiment and that emotion. So yeah, like you know, you dress well and you you dress your books well as well. I need to commend you on rock and Fedora's as well. I think I have looked. There's actually a it's going to be a huge, huge tangent, but when the very first weekend I moved to Austin, I went out, I had met like a friend of a friend and she's like, Oh, I know, like so many people in this town. So like let's just go, we'll go to a couple places I know and like see, you know, see who's there. And at some point of Fedora like just circulated and she like gifted it to me. She's like here, you can have this, and it's the only time I've seen myself in a fedor and been like that's not bad, like that's that's looking all right, and I thought it was just for the night, so I like left it. I'm staying at a hotel while I was finding a place to live, and I left it at the front desk for her to come get and then I like a year later she had moved and I asked, like you forget that Fedor Andchos, but know, and I said, Dang, I could have kept it. You Shock. You know, here's the thing about the FEDOR. Right like a fedora where I could either be like this guy's like too much, they away from him, he's like ridiculous, or it could be the cool guy right it, you know. So so you're either one side of the spectrum of the other. I try to be on the side where I will my fo door because I have interesting things to say. So you want to be on the side of like this guy's interesting, not like this guy's like off. But unless you want to be alone, and then you can be off. And you know, well, yea for Dora's matter, man. Fantastic, fantastic. Now you've also because because writing several books not enough, teaching not enough, you've also created what started as a twitter chat, hiphop Ed, and has since become an entire nonprofit and brand. So, for people who maybe haven't heard of hip hop Ed, what's it all about? You know, hiphop Ed is it's a movement to to have the world exist at the intersections of hiphop and education. It's a movement to bring hiphop into schools and see what's educative about hip hop culture without dismissing it by, you know, some random things some rapper said. And, like you said, it began with a twitter chat. I was tweeting into the you know, it's a black hole, with this hash stag of Hiphop ed, because I believe in bringing hiphop and education together, and before long people just tweeting...

...along with me every week, and since then it's gone like it's been a worldwide trending topic at least three times and I get rappers and young people and scientists and like the most random connection of people together and Ay they come being on twitter every Tuesday night at nine pm a tweet about some topic. I would I put out about hiphop and education. And for the last couple weeks I've been one of the inaugural twitter spaces hosts and so at eight fifteen pm every Tuesday I host a twitter spaces conversation on the intersections of hip hop and education. And now it's a nonprofit organization that supports schools, trains teachers, convenes on twitter and, you know, and houses this other thing I've worked on call science genius, which is a science rap battle competition. But yeah, it all began randomly online about ten or eleven years ago, as the best things to do just random, randomly online and then lead to greatness. Have you the twitter spaces, obviously still very new. Have you found that that that conversation is even like more enjoyable with like in an audio format? Oh Man, I am in love with sort of spaces. I know I used to do ylive conversations and you know, and Iglive you almost like talking to an audience and so you know, almost feels kind of PRECI and on twitter spaces you have a community is already generated. You know, at least for a hip hop everybody generated your community that would get online and sweet with us, and now we get to hear the voices and bring folks up to the stage and it's so much more democratic and you could concurrently sweet. It's just a multimodal experience where you get to engage in a community through words that are said and words that are typed. It's just an amazing, amazing set of conversations and I'm super humble to have been selected by twitter to be one of their in or Gal hosts. And then you're making people's Day too when you bring them up on stage. So like, Huh, like I get a platform now, that's that's awesome. Like I love the sense of community for I do have to ask. Were you on Clubhouse as well? I was on clubhouse for a little bit. It was cool. You know, there was something about like the full exclusivity in the rollout that was not my favorite, but I was on there for a bit. But I find twitter space is a lot more Democrat democratic. I mean, like we had a twitter space conversation yesterday and we had these two high school students from Kansas City who decides to hop on a conversation and like school or room of adults on what young folks need to make school more enjoyable. I mean that just doesn't happen anywhere else. That is fantastic. I ask because I agree with you. I think the clubhouse I always felt with with most club house. There were there were some rooms that were fine, but yeah, I agree. The exclusivity added to, I think, the attitude of a lot of the people on there, and I always kind of felt like I was just watching a group of friends that already knew each other congratulate each other. I'm like...

...achievements, which is fine, but I don't want an award show. I you know, I'd prefer to have a conversation. I've found in twitter spaces that that usually happens. It's like you're saying, it's way more democratic. You've got people that are like actually interested in what you have to say instead of just like give me my moment to shine and that I'm out. Like it's very nice that there's a better fushion of clubhouse. Basically, yeah, I mean no shade the clubhouse. I think it serves its purpose for audiences who like that kind of conversation. I just, you know, personally find for the space is so much more democratic and you describe the right like. It's not like this, like old boys club or like old friends gathering. You know, it's you know, it's a sort of like take a man over stage as the audience watches the spit their brilliant you know, it's like it's like Yo, we know, we believe in this thing. We come up, we talk, we learn from each other, we grow from each other and we make new friends. You know, like what better way to be than that? You said eight hundred and fifteen for future. Yeah, eight hundred fifteen pm every Tuesday. You are welcome to join. You'll love it. It ranges from like the deeply like, like, you know, political, to like did you hear that album? How could you possibly bring that into a classroom? And I thought the range of the conversation is always also really cool. We've been talking a lot about the early kind of exposure for it, and is that I mean, obviously we need stem earlier in schools and and presented in more accessible and entertaining ways. Really too but from a parent's perspective in particular, what can they be doing to help kind of generate this interest? That's a great question. Then there are number of things that parents can do. The first is just like don't ever say to your child or around your child, not a mad person, I'm not a science person. I think societally we've gotten so comfortable with just saying I'm not that, and young folks inherit that and so they the first time they struggle in school, of the first times a little bit difficult that I I'm just not a mad person, I'm just not a science person, and they have an entire identity constructed around what they can't do when in reality you've not spent enough time with its in a whether or not you're good at it. So the first thing is like being very intentional about what we say around children about your relationship to stem subjects are. The second thing is affirmation, affirmation, affirmations. That is how you present it, but it's also being able to make connections between what young folks intrinsically do and connecting that back to signs. Like my work around hiphop Ed. It's just like looking at the deep scientific knowledge expressed by a rapper. They put out hypotheses, they test them, they revised. I mean that that's that's part of the scientific process. And in a book I read about like this concept of science mindedness, like you don't have to be a scientist to be science minded. You have to be curious, reflective, anti authoritarian, you know. And these are skills sets that most young folks are already have, and so it's about identifying the skills they...

...have and connecting them back still discipline. So that's like a you know. A third thing in the fourth is like introduced them to science and math heroes. I and I interviewed this guy named Jeff Henderson who used to work at Nike and design sneakers. He did some early yeaseas. He's now started his own sneaker company and he's an engineer and designer who spends his life making cool sneakers. Young folks don't even know jobs like that exist and they don't know that you have to be able to be into science and math to have that kind of a cool job. And they're tons of folks like that that exist in the world. But if you tell a young person like name a scientists, you know, you know they're like opera. I in sign of gout with the crazy hair like that's so far from the reality and so it's so introducing some more Contemporary Science Heroes that young folks can find relatable. Last thing I'll say, because I don't want to get the whole book away, but all these ideas are in the book and explore the more detail. It's like you don't know the power of getting on email, finding a guide that is doing cool science stuff and sending him an email saying hey, you know, I am a parent and I like you're working at school. You know, would you mind having a five minutes in conversation with my kid about what you're doing? Those folks are sitting in a lab somewhere writing papers that are only being read incited by the same five people for the entire lives, and then looking to connect. They want to have people be fans up their work, and so when you reach out to them, they more often than out, will respond. I think that's a good rule for life to like just reach out to people and feels that you're interested in it's it's certainly so. I've had so many amazing things emerge out of just saying, you know what, let me try out of graduatetude in a couple of years back I was teaching about Kendrick Lamar's album to pimple butterfly and class and I said right, some lesson plans around, you know, Kendricks album and what you're teaching in class and poetry, and I'm reach outs on them. And guess what happened? Somebody from top RO guns the same. I reach outs on him and three weeks later Kendrick Lamar and I and him were in a school in New Jersey talking about his album. It's in front of a room full of teenagers. It was just a phone call. It's that, you know, and and so many opportunities that I've had in life at been a function of just saying, I wonder if this person would be interested. Let me reach out to them. And so you're right. It's a rule for thumb for life. You believe in something, you're passionate about it and you feel like somebody else could benefit from it. It's not always like let me see who I can be friends with in high places, but like that that person could actually like that person. I think this was cool. You know, you have to have a conversation with that person so I can learn from them. Um, reach out and amazing things happen. Yeah, and they can sniff that to like if they're if you're just trying to to use them, they're gonna be like no, get out of here. Authenticity is currency, my friend. I might name the episode that I like that. Obviously we've been in the...

...midst of a pandemic. I don't know if everyone's the scene. You know, everyone that's listening. Perhaps you've noticed here there, and we're will be coming up on, you know, two years of this and in some cases that's two years of at home education with very little, if any, you know, returned to a classroom type of setting. So the kind of a two part question here. But what has covid taught us about education and how can we be better moving forward? I love that question. The first thing I always say to people when they asked me about covid is, you know, it was not the best thing for young people. Agreed. However, there were some things that we learned about how education happens during covid that can help us be better. Also, some young folks had the best educational experiences of their lives during covid they adults like the frame it all is like it was awful, it was all doom and gloom. All the kids hated it. No, some of them liked it, and so I've been asking kids, like what worked well for you? You know, during Covid, during online learning, kids love the fact that they could pick their own schedule. They love the fact that they could pick their own backgrounds. You know, they love the fact that the home workers all online right away and they could research and then do the work. So they are things that we can glean from that experience there we can bring back into classroom. Post pandemic. I of work with Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts over the course of the last year and designing what I call the collider classroom or the post pandemic classroom, and the idea is to realize that, post pandemic, we're still going to need to clean some wisdom from online learning and that the best physical spaces for learning are going to have to be hyperspaces where young folks have access to digital resources or where there's a wall in the class room where they can sort of access the web. And this post pandemic clashing that we designed to Lincoln Center. We paid attention to a lot of really intimate details based on conversations with young people. So we have really curative lighting. We've realized that if you the lighting in the classroom has to reflect the moves of young folks and that if you change the lighting in certain ways, you can actually generate them, like you could almost like invoc as certain emotion and young people with certain lighting. So we have unique lighting. We have a green space in the classroom. Young folks love to be able to gather and sit and chill and lounge. They don't need to be sitting in groups of four or in straight rows anymore, and so we have to sort of like really different options for seating arrangements. It's a task to a concept of teaching as a performance art. So we're training teachers to be able to perform more when they teach on this platform and stage. Ye have hidden, hidden spaces for young folks to be able to keep their books in their materials so they is actually a concept of...

...a post pandemic clash of the collider classroom that I've been dreaming up and I think it's based on a recognition that all online learning isn't bad. All the learning during COVID was not problematic. There's some aspects that we can certainly improve upon, but the best class was going forward are going to be equal parts the traditional classroom where young folks are in physical spaces, and also visitals that have online kind of platforms. Like we need to embrace the concept of the hybrid classroom. Sons sons very similar embracing a hybrid work concept and that it's like hey, if we we take the best elements of each of these and put them in a way that gets people energize at engaged, like what, look at what we can achieve. It's amazing the parallels. Like as we were going there, that was like that's like that makes so much set man just so spot on. And here's a thing to like. Some of the most successful companies in the world had already figure this out. You know, you go to Google offices, man, you know folks have access the food right away, they have flexible seating arrangements, they're able to sort of work their own schedule. The Google campus looks like the ideal school, if you ask me, and so they've already figured out that if their employees are comfortable that their basic needs met and you trust them to be able to get their work done and still have a good time and still feel whole and full and welcome, you will have more productivity. But in schools get this antiquated notion that rigger has to look like rigor mortis and we have to move past that. I think the pandemic has sped up our realization that the old model isn't working and the next model has to look more like a little bit of both. Love it. I love it all right, Christopher, you're al must off the hook care but we've got our top three and I'm gonna let you choose because obviously you're very well versed in hiphop. You mentioned an intimate conversation with Kendrick Lamar earlier, so you can you can choose your own ending care either your top three hiphop artist or your top three hip hop lyrics. Oh Gosh, that's a tough, tough question. I think I'll go with artist and I may share some lyrics. A know me, I'm the RASADEMIC Guy, right. You know, if you write a book, call racademic. You don't pick sizes, you just do both. So favorite artists of all time you know, I love NAS man. Nas Is, my guys, one of my favorite MC's. I spent a little time at the hiphop archive at Harvard when they announced the Nazair Jones Fellowship at Harvard University, and not only is the a brilliant mcee, he's just an intelligent man and the fact that he's the only rapper with a fellowship at Harvard. I have to say...

Nas and NAS is like first single was. It ain't hard to tell, and I just, I just, I just love that song. I like the way it he opens it up just affirming himself. It ain't hard to tell. I Excel and prevail. The MIC is contact, that I can trap clients tell my mic checked his life of death, breathing the cipher's breath like that. That like I am here hip hop world and world I excel, I prevail, like I just love the notion of affirmation as your introduction to the world. So Nas and the opening lyrics saying, hard to tell. I'm a East coach cat. So I definitely have to say biggie. There's a sort of magical simplicity in biggie lyrics when you hear it the first time and then you listen to what the second and third time you were like, oh my gosh, that was a double ententre. Oh my gosh, I was an internal Ryan Scheme. Like you can nerd out over biggie lyrics and when you hear him for the first time, they like they seem very simple. So I definitely have to say big. You know, I'm trying to think about what big lyric not coming to me right now, but he's my guy. And third, she's I'm gonna go contemporary on a third. Oh my gosh, I could I not say Jess. I definite have sink, just a, also laughter, just as and client. Definitely just as my guy. He's my partner in the scientious project and you know he's come with me to New York City to the schools. Just a challenge, kiss the right science wrap. So I will say just a for sure. And you know cats is so stingy. They got short arms and deep pockets. Like that idea. Like sons. You have short arms and deep pockets. How do you not love v Genius just up the utank clan? So that's my top three. I love. Who are you gonna go with with contemporary? I was gonna go contemporary and I was gonna go with Jay Electronica, who I just I just think he's absolutely brilliant and you know, folks in love his last album because it was a lot of Jay Z on it. I think the more you can sprink with Jay Z on anything, the better it gets. But Jay Electronica is just the he's just a brilliant wordsmith. I'd need to give listen to all of them right now. You do wait. My only, I think, my only story that I can contribute as I saw Nas when I was in college at Miami and it was it was a fantastic show, but his it was goodie mob as the the opener. So seeing seeing Celo, and yes, in the flesh, that is a short man. He is is very like tiny. I did not realize there was a I don't remember who's I'm saying. I think it was just like a local, you know, some of them worked at the venue or something, and he he came out and he's like all right, like everyone ready for Nas, like we're all you know, we're all going nuts, and then he's like, all right, he's gonna be out in a few minutes. That I was like thirty minutes later and I was just like man, what are you? Your hype and is not good. But then it came...

...out and was just fantastics. I was like all right, all right, I'll just forget. That's the heckle, but show man, goody moth and not know. So, yeah, and I believe those were free tickets because I worked at the radio station and someone one of the other DJ's there, and I actually felt pretty bad because he was able to like he like put me in touch with the person to get the free tickets. So I got one for me in a buddy and then he also was trying to get tickets, but I guess hadn't confirmed it with the person, so they didn't have any for him. Oh No, I was like do you want these tickets, because, like you said that. He's like no, no, you enjoy so slight tinge of guilt while watching, but then you kind of lose yourself. I'm sure that he wrote it away really quickly. That there. Yeah, because maybe by like the fourth bar I was like okay, I'm all right. Well, Christopher, this has been fantastic. I am like ready to run through a brick wall right now. So if people want to check out the book. They want to learn more about you. Where can I find you? You can find me on twitter, art instagram at pre semden so. That's Chris M Din on twitter or Instagram, Hashtag hiphop it. hiphoped. The book is stems team make dream and, if you like my older book ratchademic, reimagining academic success, stay in touch love of it. Fantastic. Thank you again for hopping on. And of course we've got to end with a Corny joke, as we always do. What do Beethoven a little John have in common? Thanks, open a little John. Having comment. What's Um? That's right, I got it. You know what I think is the first person to ever's ever correctly get the code. I cracked the code. Good people cool things is produced in Austin, Texas. If you were a fan of this episode, go ahead and hit that follow button. That helps more people here the show. You can send me a message Joey at good people cool thingscom. Thank you to all of the guests who have been on good people cool things and check out all the old episodes via good people, cool thingscom. As always, thank you for listening and have a wonderful day.

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