Good People, Cool Things
Good People, Cool Things

Episode 27 · 2 years ago

27: Courage and Problem Solving with Christine Perakis

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Christine Perakis has lived through not one, but TWO hurricanes (in the span of two weeks, no less!) and it led to her writing her book The Resilient Leader: Life Changing Strategies to Overcome Today’s Turmoil and Tomorrow’s Uncertainty. She works with businesses to help them turbo-charge their growth and reach new levels of success, and shares her story on the podcast.

Welcome the good people cool things, the podcast featuring conversations with entrepreneurs, writers, musicians and other creatives. I'm your host, Joey held, and today's guest is Christine Parrakas, author of the resilient leader, life changing strategies to overcome today's turmoil and tomorrow's uncertainty. Christine lived through two hurricanes and the span of two weeks and has taken her experience from that end shared it with all different kinds of business to help them grow, and she serves as a business growth architect, helping brands share their stories, identify issues and overcome them to take things to new heights. Probably could have used a sea term there. Should have done some word play, but here we are. It's still wonderful all the way around. If you like to get in touch with the show, you can do so in a couple of different ways. Shoot me an email at Joey at good people, cool thingscom, or leave a comment on facebook or a tweet on twitter. It's at GPCT podcast on both of them. You can also support the show via the merge shop. Good people, cool thingscom slash shop check out all sorts of things, and I'm doing a special promo because it's my birthday this month and er the code birthday when you check out you get twenty percent off. That's fantastic. It's one nful. It's great. But first here's the conversation with Christine. I found more time to try things that maybe I wouldn't have really gotten my hands into. Like I just I was playing around with some t shirt designs, which is something I've always been like I'd be fun to do, but never really took the time to learn how to do it or anything about like printing on demand or anything like that. And it's been certainly not happy that. You know, we're confined to our home, but I think if you if you take the attitude of making the most of it, then it's okay if you can't go to a bar. Well, isn't that the whole of life, right? It's that attitude about no matter what comes is making the most of it. And and, and I may say I've been on your site, you have some really cool products already, so you're already doing it and that's really fun. Like I have to read them and then Stellima say them out loud, the sougans and stuff, because they're so clever and yeah, I thought that was great. But you know, what I love about this time is how, you know, at times, and I feel as though we all get a chance for a reset. You know, we've gotten into this multitasking, non present type of you know, go, go, go, and constant motion, never really being president in anything and and thinking that we're behind already when we start the day checking emails, doing all the things that we do to keep us out of the moments. And really the world had to slow down for a while, and I know it feels like I was talking to someone today about how, you know, we all had about six weeks in us before it over the edge. And you know, the person said, well, you know, we're such fragile people, and I said we're really not, we just think we are. Right. It's all in the head exactly. That's a just so spot on say, spot on. Well, you know, I guess when you've had the experiences I've had very recently, and general I mean just having, you know, eighty five percent of our housing that's destroyed, and the hurricanes that we experience down in the BBI, and you know, when you're literally wiped away everything, you have to contend with what's left, and what's left is what's true and it's who we are. You know, the same thing here, when you can't, you know,...

...go out, you can't, you know, do the things you're used to doing to make yourself look a certain way, we have to let go of all of that. But what's left is the truth of who we are and we have that opportunity. To me, that's freedom, absolutely, and I do want to chat about that a little more. Eye Your experience living through is it to hurricanes? In two weeks? Yeah, backtoback Irma and Maria. So what's that like? Because my my experience with hurricanes going to school in Miami, all about the you. I'm holding up my hands like the you, as you know, the accompanying hands right. My my experience while I was there was my freshman year there was tropical storm Er Nesto, which was a very initially was was looking like it would be this real intense hurricane and then kind of at the last second it got downgraded. And of course this is through my eighteen year old freshman eyes. So maybe I was just downplaying the significance all along, since I was like hurricanes, like what's that we just have snow, though, mortal, nothing can touch. And then I remember it being like we're going to cancel classes for extended periods of time. I think we ended up missing two days of class and it was maybe, I don't know what, like an inch and a half of rain on the campus, like it was but pretty. It's another rainy day, is it? Yeah, South Florida, and I was just I just remember because this was like, you know, the tail end of hurricane season, so this was kind of right at the start of my college career, and I was just like are the windows secure? Are and all that, and then it ended up being, I don't want to say a disappointment, like I'm glad that there wasn't a hurricane, but I was just a van yeah, and that's a disappointment, isn't it? That's kind of the hurricanes that we experience in the BBI. For those of us who hadn't been around for, you know, since what Maryland, some time in the S, I think, was one, and everybody, you know, we get ready, do the things we do, you know, secure the windows and the homes and and then go end up at the bar drinking because we beat another one. You know, and I think that for a while, I know everybody always asked me, why did you stay? And, you know, I think at that point I didn't know what I didn't know, you know, and you can't imagine the experience of something like that. And in fact nothing had ever happened like that before, you know, as the most powerful storm in the Atlantic Basin. So they didn't have anything to compare it to. And in, you know, my particular region, it had never impacted that way. And look what in Puerto Rico, which is far larger population and more built, you know, had dramatic suffering from Maria, which was only, quote unquote, a category for by the time it got there. You know. So it's just weird how we have these perspectives and we become complacent, you know, and I draw a lot in my work and am my writing about, you know, seamanship and how we get complacency in you know, and seamanship. It's a number one rule of seamanship is complacency kills. You know. So it's true in business, is can be true in life. Right and death may look like, you know, just never being fully satisfied, not living to the fullest, not experiencing your your passion or reaching the end of the you know, adventure, whatever that is meant to be. And we can all get we all get complacent in our lives, I think, especially when things are going along swimmingly right and we're all these comfortable absolutely, and I can only imagine that a hurricane probably probably really brings that...

...to light, about being complacent. And if you hadn't prepared for it, and even if you had, the impacts could really be devastating. Well, yeah, that's the thing. You know, there were places that were spared. As an all these things like tornadoes. You see them in the Midwest. You know certain neighborhoods will be flattened and then they'll be one house standing or, you know, different parts of the same area that might survive just fine. And you know, we don't know, and so we might be even if we're doing the best we can, we can still lose everything. You know, there's no stopping what Richard Branson called it category seven right. It was off the charts, wind rereading until the charts broke, you know. So that's the kind of thing that they can't you know, we can't prepare for that. And there wasn't building codes to that. And you know life, but life is like that, right. They are just things that happen, as I call them, you know, category five events these days, and my work and and my most recent book, the resilient leader, that just came out this month. And you know the irony of that is, you know, I've worked on this. I literally started writing the book in the midst of, you know, being trapped and buried alive and my wind coffin, as I call it, and I started writing this book and I've been, you know, working on it and getting it ready. I've had, you know, wonderful team around me. Launches in the middle what turns out to be the Middle Right, I thought back in March, I'm like, Oh, thank God, my books not coming out till June. It'll be fine, you know, book tour and speaking engagements all that. And of course no, we're in the middle of a global pandemic and it's a day where the protests were making their way to my neighborhood and I'm literally hearing the helicopters buzzing overhead as their threats of looting right down the street from me, around the corner. And you know, we're taking on another issue of, you know, systemic racism in the country, and it's just madness of how many things that we don't predict. Right. So I get used to and I figure out. The global pandemic is fine, I've figured out how to be super busy and be productive and creative and it's been a full time. And then we have, you know, protests, all global protests, and you know these added inconvenience of some looting and you know the lost down that occurs from that and curfews, and you know, just keeps going. Life is always going to have that. You know, there's always going to be another storm. So, you know, that's really what I speak to in my work and in my writing, to that piece. You know, not everybody's going to have an experience of hurricanes like us, you know, but they are going to have experiences of financial distress or now the global pandemic or, you know, death and divorce. And you know, starting a focus category five. Yeah, the murder Hornets, remember those? You know, I mean, by goodness, could there be anything else? Right? We don't even know. These are things we're not making up, you know, it's just comes. And so, yeah, life is like that and it's inevitable that we're going to keep getting more of that. Sure. And and to kind of go back to your book, I'm always interested for people who have written a book what your process is like, and you kind of touched on it a little bit of how it sounds like you were kind of hunkered down. I A perhaps wall wind was roaring all around you in the writing phase of this, but can you kind of take us through? I. Did you have the the vision in your head, or was it kind of like an outline? I did you just start writing and didn't stop until you got to the end, which is always impressive to hear stories like...

...that. Yeah, that's not that easy. No, no, actually, and in fact it was a survival mechanism. I'll tell you honestly. I there's the hurricanes. If you remember, they come in waves, right there's the first wall and then there's the eye and then the second wall. And in the first wall, you know I've lost my root, the place is flooding. I'm, you know, alive. I've made it through to the eye and I'm doing weird things, like I reach out and called my brother. I wanted him to know and let my family know that I'd made it through the first half, you know, and I didn't know when I'd be in communication with them again. And in fact we lost telecoms for, you know, weeks and months mostly. And but in the second wall I got trapped in my shelter so that the my had an opening that was open to the storm, so it was literally coming in. The pressure is killing my head. It's nonstop, relentless. Those sounds are monstrous and I realize that I am not going to be able to get out. I don't have an exit plan. My shelter is I'm trapped there and I have no telecoms, no ability to communicate with anyone and I have no idea how others will have survived this. So it's that moment of realization and as the panic starts to rise. And, you know, I would ask anybody who's listening what would they do if everything was taken away? What would you tell you know, you have no people, you have no Internet, no telecoms, no support system. You know, what is it? No Electronics. And what is the one thing that we can do? And that is to start writing. You pick up a piece of paper and a pen and start writing and it activates the prefrontal Cortex of the brain, the thinking part of the brain, the problem solving part of the brain. So I literally had this moment of choice where it was I could feel the panic rising in my stomach and I don't know what I'm going to do and it's dark and you know, this monster is raging all around me and I have to do something or curl up in a ball and just wait for it to end. You know, we course wait for death to come, and I thought I'm going to learn whatever I can from this experience. I'm going to write everything that I can remember and expend everything that I've experienced about this, what I did to prepare, the mistakes that I've made and because there's going to be another storm, right, I mean in life and in general. And there was two weeks later. But you know, that commitment in that moment to start writing is the beginning of the book. But it was more about survival so that I could get through those hours of the storms continuing to rage and not knowing how I was going to get out of the situation, that something would occur to me or in the world that would shift the situation as it was. So it really was a survival mechanism and you know, it's not something that I would ever take lightly and I know that I have was complacent about that too. You know, I've always been a been a writer. You know I've had my first book out a few years you know, same year of the hurricanes actually, and you know, but it's that idea that don't take it for granted. There's something we can do and it's our answers are always inside of us, and so just taking that moment, that making that decision was the life changing event and it's what kept me going and kept me through and it became ultimately my next book. That's such a fantastic story and I mean it sounds very harrowing, but I really like that mindset of just this is helping me survive right now, and it sounds like it's helping a lot of other...

...oaks as well. You refer to yourself as a business growth architect, which I really like that framing of it and and just kind of all it evokes. Can you kind of talk about what went into that decision of branding yourself as that and how you kind of put on yours, going to say architectural boots, but I guess architectural gloves maybe as a better y's right, it's both. Yeah, there's a whole there's a whole outfit that goes with it. And, yeah, and working with businesses as yeah. Well, you know, I always used to say I love working with creative people and I have people that I gravitate towards me and me towards them or generally, you know, successful in their lives and having other having been successful in other endeavors and very created, very visionary, and with people like that, entrepreneurs, true entrepreneurs. You know, we all have our Achilles right, we created. People tend to end up. They can get into a spin and just go after all these ideas. How many people do you know that have great ideas and then they get distracted by another shiny idea, you know, or another thing? And and so I've always said I'm the person who helps them put the walls and the floors and the ceilings and the windows and the doors in, you know, and I realized that, because I've worked with people from the idea stage through to this scaling stage of businesses and up to eight figures, that it's really, you know, the architects job right, and architects get involved at the idea stage, at the design stage, and help to craft that vision into something that's real and solid and actionable. And there's nothing that gives me more satisfaction than taking that creativity and making it an actionable, concrete reality. And that's what's so often missing. It's a difference between people who say, you know, Oh, I've got a book in me, you know, or I have a business idea, and those who actually execute and get those things accomplished, you know. So I believe it's, you know, that's my role in the world as a small business advisor, you know, is as an architect to those creative visionaries, and it's really for the people who want to make something real come of it. I'm sitting here nodding my head, especially around the part of the new shiny idea coming out and meeting like, Oh, let me go down this rabbit hole. Well, yeah, I mean, and you're an interesting guy, right, because you're creative, you're a musician, and mean you have also this success around this and this business activity that you're doing to so you're working on all Pistons Right now, all sides of your brain that is functioning and so you know you have it, you know, leg up in that sense. But again, you know, the thing that I learned from these hurricanes is I ended up alone. Right. I left a group of friends that I've been with all day helping them shore up a home that had, you know, the partner was storing up, showing up his business and we were working on the House and then we had dinner together, watching the last weather reports and I left and it never occurred to me to say, Hey, I don't think I should be alone for this. You know, I just have a boat cap and I'm a mariner. I've been, you know, at see, I've been in life dirtning situations before. I can handle almost anything, or at least in my mind I could have. And I just went home alone, not thinking. It was completely unconscious and didn't have the courage to say, you know, I don't think I have this handled. I don't know. There was a moment I was with a friend who thirty five years on the islands. He'd seen a lot and he you know, we're watching...

...this news and he turned to me and he said I'm scared, and this is a guy whose life I would put my life in his hands because, you know, he's really accomplished, experienced, you know, knows a lot, very wise, very successful mariner. And to think that this person was scared. That wasn't even enough of a wakeup call to me. Right, I had to and you or this thing alone to figure out that, yeah, I need to find in me the courage to say, Hey, I don't think I can do this by myself. That's something that, like, I can totally picture myself and I think a lot of people can being in that position of just like, okay, I've helped you, like now I'm going to go home and kind of, you know, whether the storm and you don't really think yet, like basically what you just said, like you don't think of the the repercussions of it, I guess, of being in this situation by yourself, because it isn't something that you've experienced. So you kind of don't think like hey, this is something that's maybe going to be the worst thing I've ever lived through, and you don't like have that context there and it's just it's so interesting to kind of like dig really deep in yourself and yeah, maybe you have that team around you in this case, your friend who had seen so many different things, saying hey, I'm scared, that maybe that throws off like the warning flag, but it's just so interesting how our minds work like that. Well, and it doesn't even have to be as extreme as a life threatening situation. Right. It's like how many people during this clout, global pandemic or anytime, you know, financial distress, we tend to suffer alone, in silence. As a race, rather than their culture, that we would rather, you know, we isolate. How many contents? You know, there's a loneliness epidemic. Before the pandemic, forty percent of our population had no one to talk to. In the latest studies, twenty five percent of millennials have no friends. So this is the social media generation, right. And so these are people who, on the outside, have lots of great you know, post pictures, followers, connections, you know, social communities, electronic communities, but when it comes to the storms of life or business, who do we know is going to come for us? You know, and it might just be something that maybe lots of us have experience, but we are afraid to reach out and we we hide our feelings from others and we refuse to allow our vulnerability to be seen and I had to come to terms with that truth about myself, that I was unwilling to recognize my own incapacity because I've accomplished so a plenty. You know, I've got a good resume on paper. I've done a lot and, you know, didn't occur to me. I didn't know how to think that way and I certainly had little experience asking for help. I mean, people are paying me very well to give them help, right, so I was quite comfortable in that role. I've been a professional scure' but, you know, navigated businesses, boats and people off of mountains and see and business. You know, I'm the person you go to, and that's the other piece, right. Our culture is about, you know, mastering these things, being brave and, you know, achieving and doing it on our own. And I when I got my captain's license, it was a really long slog to get, you know, all the requirements met, and I'm you know, have a handful of friends who are captains, a lots of friends actually that you know, but been through the process and they reached out to people when I could. But I had a really close friend who,...

...you know, I would have been so grateful to have his help and and I never asked and he said to me afterwards, I thought you just wanted to prove that you could do it by yourself, and I thought, how ridiculous is that? Not that he said it, but that is that's what I'm that's the message I'm communicating right like. So what you know, I don't think any of us really achieved anything on our own. You know, there's always a community around, and that's another, you know, major lesson that I gathered from my storm experiences and in from life in general is that we need our tribe when it comes to weathering the storms, and so that's really important. And when the second hurricane came two weeks later, you can be sure I was with a group of people, you know, in one of the homes that had survived and done well, that we felt was the safest place to be, and I did not let myself make the same mistake twice. That is great to hear, that you should not take the same distance twice. Well, you know, that's the twenty seven times, twenty seven times of making the same mistake. That's what that's. Some of US take longer, you know, I got to be hit over the head a couple extra times. Exactly. Yeah, we just need a little you know, some of US need more nudges than others in terms of right. It isn't who do we want to be right? It's our choice. Exactly. I want to go back to what you had said about we all need our tribe, which I think is super important and totally agree. But, like you're saying, it can be difficult to reach out to people like that. So if, let's say you have, I mean this isn't true, but let's say you have no tribe, or that's how you feel like, is that you you don't have anyone that you can kind of turn to or, you know, can can confide in with some of these bigger concerns or questions or anything like that? What should people do to start to to find those people that do exist out there, but maybe they don't know where they are? Well, you know, it's a great question and in fact it is absolutely true for me when I, you know, those hours when I was trapped, almost twenty four hours trapped in my shelter, I had no idea how I was going to get out of there. I didn't know I couldn't reach my friends either down the road or abroad. I didn't know my neighbors and lots of US don't know our neighbor's right and so it's the so I was in that position of what do you do? I didn't ask for help. I didn't even know at that point that that was my major flaw in the in the scenario. But I I had no way of knowing what was going to happen to me and I had no friends around me, and I didn't I couldn't reach my friends for about ten days. So I had to figure out how to first get out of my my my trap. I had to figure out how to survive. Running water was gone. We had no electricity, no running water, no telecoms. I've been cooking guests. So what is the first thing we can do when it seems like there's no one around? And and so for me, you know, in my first step was to become somebody that others could rely on. So I started by, you know, taking whatever I had that was left, that didn't that I didn't need, and giving it to my neighbors, offering, you know, what other resources I had, going out for supply. Why? Runs tracking down water and food for the community. I've had a US phone in the island that had never worked before, but if I climbed up to the top of this hill above my house, I could get a signal. So my phone became a superpower that worked intermittently in certain spots where people could reach...

...out to their families and get news and get word out. And you know, first so the first step any of us can do is to become the person that others can rely on, and that's a far more natural state right and most of us, well, I would say all of us generally, have a desire to be helpful. You see it all the time, and so by offering up and stepping forward to help others, then it's not so hard for people if you allow them to help you. So things that I needed I car, you know, I had a running car mostly, but I needed a jump start half the time. There was, you know, had neighbors helping me get you know, have sharing food with me as I would go get supplies for them, and you know, all of that making ourselves helpful and others in turn can then help us. I like that and I would hope that most of us don't have to endure what you did to be able to kind of put that into motion well. But again, you know, it was storm. Looks like a lot of different things right. It might just be a global pandemic where we're trapped in a home. You know, I might be running out of toilet papers, my biggest fear, but I'm not really in danger. You know, it just feels uncomfortable and so reaching out to say hey, how are you doing? You know, are you okay? How have you spent the last you know, how you getting through your days, and just being there for others in that way, suddenly we're not alone. It's so it's so simple and I totally agree. Like one of the I guess, side effects of all of this being at home and, you know, not going out into the world and trying not to infect other people, which is, I think, a good goal generally, as well being, you know, being there for people from afar is still effective and I've reached out to its several people that I, you know, lost touch with over the years or maybe had only chatted with once or twice, and just checked in at it with how they're doing, what they're working on, what, you know, they're if they've adopted a dog recently. Just asking about that and I could reminder to adopt, don't shop and and really just see, you know, seeing what people are up to. And in some cases these were people I haven't spoken to, I would say, I mean in person for for sure over a decade and probably even through any kind of email or message for a few years. And in some cases also, like there was one, since since college, I hadn't actually spoken to him and we just hit it off like, you know, like it was a day later, after, after the last time we had hung out, and it's I think, with people like that, they're glad to hear from you, and I think that's kind of getting out of our own head. Sometimes it's the hardest part and it's it's kind of showing that vulnerability and asking people how they're doing, but I think it's such an important thing to do. Oh my God, I mean I'm sure that your outreach was hugely impactful, you know, and I think you underestimate in fact. It probably really helped change people's experiences, you know, if not lives. I mean just to hear from someone will have someone, you know, heat know that they're being thought of. That they're not alone in an experience that they have somebody out there, a little lifeline, even if it doesn't feel like it consciously. That is connection, right, and we all need connection. And this is a time when we're we're in a stay at home, you know, situation. We need to feel that all the more so that's really powerful. And yet what does it take, right is if you, if you,...

...if you were in the state of I need some help, that phone would weigh three times. You wouldn't be able to dial right. But this thing about you know, Gosh, I could reach out of this person I've been talked to in ten years. It's so much easier because you're thinking of them and not yourself and what you need. Absolutely, and I think that Segue is kind of nicely into some of your your work that you do, particularly around leadership and building those relationships. Is there anything that has surprised you as far as either relationship building strategies or methods or anything like that, or in terms of leadership in general, that someone has maybe said to you or common challenges that people have encountered that you were kind of like, oh, I never really consider that before. Well, you know, one of the things that came of my experience and my experiences and is now a regular part of what I talked about is how we interact, is group and this idea of, you know, Tupman's behavior model for group interaction. You know, storming, norming, forming and performing right at natural stage of sorry, forming, storming, norming and performing is what happens when people come together, right and until I went through these experiences and really much more consciously notice, you know, like there was a period where everybody is reaching out, and this is true in the pandemic. It's true and every natural disaster where we all come together, we meet and, you know, we separate our differences out and we just find our commonalities and we work together and and we help each other and then, you know, everything just goes back to normal at some point, right and and we in our case, you know, there was irritation, there was anger, frustration starts to come out, and that's what we're seeing now at the pandemic is people are, you know, protesting, getting mad. They're not thinking about a hundred and twenty six thousand people that have died in the two million and change that are are sick right now. And you know that idea that we are not thinking like a group, and so we're in this stage of storming right literally, you know, not understanding each other, not trusting each other, not being creative and productive and working together as a group, and so watching the the group dynamic of how that happens, both in your own community and your group of friends or your family, into your cities, into your countries, you know, states and countries, and so you're in a natural flow of things till we get this right. And that's what I think all the all of this disruption is an opportunity for it is to become more trusting of other people and acknowledge our differences and find the value in those things and to be able to move forward together in a way that got a greater common understanding and knowing that there are commonalities even as we have our differences. So that's been a part of the learning. Yeah, I feel like that needs to be on a bumper sticker or something. There are complies even as we have our de Long. Yes, that's truly like spray painted on the side of the car baby right, I mean really, you know, that's the thing. We got to get something out of all this, right, it has to be and I hope I live long enough to see it. I want to do my part and I hope others will too, and that will all come together to these experiences rather than further apart, and that's what you see when these category five situations happened.

There a chance each time for us to come together and put more glue into the connection to keep us together. I think a great place to wrap up, although you really have been dropping, I dropping these lessons or knowledge throughout this entire show, so I maybe this will just be more of a recap than anything super groundbreaking, but can you give us your top three lessons from weathering the storms of life and business? Well, I think we've talked about a couple of them. You know which is? One is having the courage to recognize that you might need help, that you do need help right. Let's not you know, let's not mess around with and just say what it is, and you know from that is the ability to communicate it right. It was the thing that I felt was serving of me at the time and it continues to teach me in my communications, having to really own the ways in which I am not fully honest with others or with myself and different times you know the truth of my situation or the truth of what's going on for me or how vulnerable it might be in a moment. So I think it's being able to communicate what we think, need, feel and want is so critical. You know, in sailing we have an expression yet to keep the Emergency Channel Open, channel sixteen. You're not supposed to leave the dock with a boat without having the radio tune to channel sixteen, which is the emergency channel, so if something happens you can hail the coach guard or anybody in re in them in range. And so it's the idea that recognize our responsibility to keep the emergency channels open and always communicate. So that's one of the most critical pieces. And then just understanding. Another expression that we have in voting is one hand on the boat. Right. I don't let anybody come on my boat without knowing that wherever they go, they've always got to have one hand on tethered to the boat. So you're both aware of where you are and you're aware of what's around you and where you're stepping, what's coming, what's outside of you. So it's both, you know, being situationally aware and selfaware and how important those things are, especially in the category five situations, and that's one of the most important things I talked about all the time, is keeping one hand on the boat. It's such a simple lesson, but I think it's such a good one. Well, and you know, there's nothing new under the Sun Right. It's just about how do we how do we get it right? I hear people talking about the same things I write about all the time, that we we use different language or we have a different experience that we bring to it or we can tell different stories around it, and that's again part of the communicating right is how do we communicate our journeys so that others can go ahead of US faster, easier, more efficiently than we did? Yeah, and that's so helpful, like when I see someone else that's doing something along the lines of what I'm trying to do and they've mapped it out in a way that's comprehensible and you can kind of see how their path went and what they learned along the way. It's just tremendously helpful. Yes, and how many of us will give ourselves that gift right and looking at how do they do. Who else might have been counted this experience? It's before me, you know, that has figured it out or has tried some things that might have worked, and so we all want to be open to that and allow for that kind of input. You know, Rita May Brown says experience judgment. Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment. So, you know, we want to learn...

...without having to go through too many bad experiences from bad judgment. That's a great quote. That one will go on the bumper sticker. It's also that may be a word, but well, it's in my book. You'll see it perfect Awesomele just thank you so much for hopping on and chatting about all of your I can call them adventures, but also just all your great insights and knowledge and everything. And if people want to check out your book or want to learn more about you, where can I go? Well, Christine Caracuscom. Hopefully you'll have a link in the show notes and my book is as on Amazon. It's the resilient leader life changing strategies for today's turmoil and tomorrow's uncertainty. Magical, Christine. Thank you again. This was fantastic and just so many so many good things. I feel like I've gotten days worth of advice out of you, and it's only it's all. They've been like well minutes. Well done. I thank you so much, Joey. I appreciate the opportunity to chat. I knew we'd have a good time and I hope that your listeners have gotten something of value from this conversation and that all of us can just have it a little bit easier because of those who've gone before. That's a fantastic wish all around, and I am sure that my listeners will feel the same as I do. And, as as astute listeners know, I always like to end with a Corny joke, so let's do a see themed one to I hopefully a little lie. It's not too cringeworthy. But where does a killer whale go for braces? I've not heard this one. Tell me. So the ORCA dantist get that. I love it. You gotta remember that. That's great. Well, you can't beat that, and on that note, thank you again so much for having me.

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