Good People, Cool Things
Good People, Cool Things

Episode 54 · 1 year ago

54: This Was Always About Basketball with Craig Leener

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Craig Leener is the author of three books, This Was Never About Basketball, All Roads Lead to Lawrence, and This Was Always About Basketball. We go all the way back to his first book, so we’ve got plenty in store for the trilogy.

We’re chatting hoops, of course, but we’re also getting into Craig’s writing process and his inspiration for his series. We talk about a few quarantine hobbies and share our favorite beers. No matter your taste, there’s plenty to enjoy. 

And yes, Craig is still an 87% free throw shooter, though that stat is 100% unverifiable.

Good people cool things is concast feature and conversations with entrepreneurs, writers, musicians and other creatives. Get inspired by their stories to do your own cool thing, and here's your host, Joey Hell. Welcome to good people, cool things. Hope you've got your sneakers ready and your basketball's pumped and full of air, because we are Chatton hoops and writing with Craig Leaner, author of the this was never about basketball trilogy, which also includes the books all roads lead to Lawrence and the most recent. This was always about basketball. Craig and I go back basically those first books. We've been chatting hoops for the last few years and he shares his writing process, how he was inspired, how he keeps track of everything in a trilogy. I can barely keep track of what day it is and what I ate earlier today, and Craig manages all three books definitely so that they work together as a trilogy, but also our great standalone reads as well. Craig also has experience in Radio, TV, film HR He's been all over the place, he's done plenty and he's sharing all kinds of good stuff on this episode. If you like to support good people cool things, this is the last week of the sales celebrating a year of the podcast. Head on over to good people, cool thingscom slash shop. Pick up a sweater, shirt, hat, Mug, some wall arn't hang it up on the walling. You got those zoom meetings. You want something good behind you, not trying to get like a barren wall behind me. Why not have some fun food, Pun art to hang up behind you? Get people talking and when you get up to leave, to go, get to your coffee or something, you'll have a nice background behind you. Or maybe you'll just turn your video off like I do. In any case, it's good stuff. You just got a head over there. Anything you get is twenty percent off. Take advantage of it. Don't even need a code. Super Simple, super easy, super wonderful, just like this conversation with Craig. People don't know who Craig Leaner is. Give us your elevator pitch and tell us what kind of elevator that we're riding on while you're telling us about yourself. To party Zippi one warner, raised and sent fer down the valley and Southern California. Play some high school basketball and I went to college, worked in film operations and Warner Brothers and Disney for a while. I got into post production and human resources management, drifted into sports writing and then as I kind of easy to retirement, I began writing young adult novels. And there we are where we're about to the fifteen or sixteen Florida. It's a very speedy elevator. I like it. I like it. And do you think that you're we've known each other just in that, that ladder phase of the book writing? Do you think that everything else kind of laddered up to that, like your post production experience? Obviously you're playing basketball.

I think there's a big impact in a trilogy about basketball. But does everything else that that were you kind of pulling from that as you were writing these books? I think so. I think at least in the first one, the sum total of my life ended up in that first book, like every everything I've ever done, any cool saying I've ever heard, it's all in there. And then when I started to write the second book I kind of had to go from scratch. The time I spend a human resources management hiring and firing people and all things in between, getting to understand human nature better certainly has helped me to design these characters. I agree. I think the writing is super easy to get into and and relatable and I'm like, I hear people talk like this all the time. It's great. You mentioned the cool sayings. Do you have a favorite saying from either the first book or any of the ones in the trilogy? Boy, I guess that would probably be violence as a means of resolving conflict doesn't work. I see. Yes, I like the one to I like that one to more people that embrace that one in the world would be a lot better, a lot better shape. Yeah, I agree. I agree someone else. I can't remember if this was on twitter or elsewhere, but I saw something of like what would you want I a billboard to say, like if you if you could get a billboard in like downtown Los Angeles, and the the top response was something like be kind to each other, and I was like thank you, like that's very simple. I like it. You're not selling anything, get it. And then someone below them said by my book, and I was like that's also good. I'd have the kind of each other at the top. I'm a book and the Lower and within this trilogy, I know we've talked about this a little bit on previous podcast. Longtime fans of I can't even say good people, cool things because you've been on other iterations of previous podcast that I've done. But we've talked a little bit about your writing process and kind of putting this trilogy together. But at that point, first time you would done one book. The second time you've done a second book. Now you've done three books with that third book. How was how did you bring it all together? Did you have that kind of planned or was that just a process as you were writing it? Well, what the first one, I just wanted to get through it and before I started I told every day that I knew that I was writing a books. I'd know where to run if I never finished it. I got this idea when I when I finished the first one, to leave a door ajar and the last chapter just in case, and then my editor said, I think we should keep gone. So then the sequel came forward and same philosophy again, where I kept a little bit of jar there in the last chapter and she judie, getting this steam was her name. She encouraged me to keep going because the story are was too high. So at that point I guess it was a pandemic add situation. I wrote the entire first draft in about four months and tried really hard to make it a standalone bringing back story so that you could pick...

...it up as itself, as a third book, and understand what's going on and wrap it up not too tightly. You can't really lace it up like a boxing glove. You have to give it a bit of breathing room so the reader can sort of figure out some things on his or her own at the end. So there's definitely a process there. I had a lot of editorial help from my crew and we finally got there and it was a pretty exciting ride the whole way. Did you find that, you mentioned the pandemic fueled I first draft. Did you find it was easier to write with, I guess, well, I don't want to say minimal distractions, because just you know, looking at the world around us during a pandemic can be pretty distracting, but without, you know, with that kind of added element to it? Did you find it more difficult, easier, or about the same as the first two? I think I was able to lock in a little more readily because I know I didn't have a lot of distractions and mean other than the global distraction. I was able to compartmentalize that and deal with it either before or after my writing sessions. And as far as kind of keeping everything fluid, you said this is a standalone book, like it can, it can serve as that, and I agree. I think it reads very well on its own, but there is a lot brought back from the first two books. Is that difficult to keep track of everything? I feel like when I'm writing a short story sometimes I forget what just happened like two pages, I guess. So how do you? How do you keep everything? Do you have like a giant eye, like one of those boards with the yarn attaching everyone, or or some other way that you keep track of everything? What's the beginning of each book? I have a free by four foot piece of builders paper that I outline the the entire eight point story arc on that, and so I have those visualizations of what is on each of the books. Between that this remembering where everything is. That's how I'm able to do it. And then what it comes time for backstory, what I would actually do is I would I would copy that out of Microsoft word from the previous book and just paste it into the story and then start to kind of carve it up and change some words and sort of, you know, shoehorned into the story in a way that you know doesn't tell too much, but just enough to keep a reader turn on the pages. Did you have any either an Aha moment or like a hitting the wall moment while you were writing this, or was it just head down, get done? Boy? Mostly Aha moments, I guess you want to do here. The occasion writers block. I have a good fortune of having a basketball court in the backyard so I'm able to shoot free throws to get back into a rhythm. But with this one I got the idea for the story for time travel when I was paying a visit to a place called the Kamalda Lee Catholic Hermitage up in the...

...mountains and bigster California place that I go about once a year, but you have to take a vale of silence when you go there, except when you're actually in the church here in the monks chant. So I was up there sort of hanging out for a couple of days and just before one of the prayer sessions there, I sat in this chapel and I'm a Jewish kid from the valley. So you know I have a lot of interesting routes, you know, eastern leanings and so forth, and I sat down with a number two council and a journal and kind of channeled the first chapter. It just sort of came through the through the air, and then once I got home I transcribe, did and kept going. Niceness, I feel like you're always, you mayst have very good stories of inspiration and making get in the starts of these these books going and I think they're great jumping off points for sure. Yeah, you know, for the second one, I went to visit my dad at cemetery where he's buried up in the north end of the valley and had this conversation with them, like I often do when I go to see him, and I said to him, Hey, if you know kind of struggling with my story right now, if he know of anything from the Hereafter, he would mind passing it along. And so so I'm driving home from there and my wife usually accompanies me on this journey and this time she was under the weather. So I'm driving home. I'm starting to get this idea about human consciousness not being tethered to the human brain. I don't know where it came from. As I'm driving along the one hundred and eighteen freeway head west to home, and then my concentration is it's just interrupted to the phone ring. That's my wife. She asked me to stop into the whole foods and pick her up what's called the wellness shot, which is this thing where they make a lemon juice and ginger and apple juice and some cay and pepper and it's sort of Stimulat your immune system. And I thought, okay, well, all right, I guess I'm going to do this. I walk into whole foods and the places of Medica of commerce and I realized, holy smokes, it's super bowl Sunday, so there's lines everywhere. It takes me forever to buy this stuff and while I'm waiting for them to make it, I grab a basket and I walk around the prepared food section throw some things into the basket just to sort of killed time. I paid for the drink, I got the check stand to pay for the things that I bought and the woman there rings it up and she says that'll be nineteen dollars in twenty six cents and I kind of looked at it like what and she goes one thousand nine hundred and twenty six, and of course that's my father's birth year, you know. And everything I was buying was random and it could have been any amount and it was that amount in it. That was in that moment I knew I was onto something. Yeah, that's such a it's such a cool story. And do you do you remember the random things that you bought or just just the total or experience and some miso soup and truffle cheese. Nice. It's a good comb that's gonna come by. Yeah, I went. I was actually at the grocery store earlier today. I just kind of was mosying around. As, as you've seen in the news, the Texas winner storms have been hitting hard out here and this is kind of...

...the first day where it's been a little Sunnier and I starting to mountain everything and I was just really craven a breakfast Taco. So I'm like, let me see what's open, like just kind of drive. There's a you know, a few places not too too far by, so I was driving by them all. They all had tremendously long lines and I was like okay, maybe I can stop at the grocery store, pick up some materials and make some at home. We've got tortillas at home, we can do it. And it was just it was almost like, almost like a dystopian kind of feeling in in half of the store, the parts with like the prepared foods and the produce were all like fully stocked, but anything bakery, meat or refrigerated was like just totally picked apart. I was telling my friend, who's a very purest with his pizza. He's like Pepperoni and that's basically it. He won't put anything else on. I told him that there were two frozen pizzas left. They were both Broccoli crust and which I've never even seen before. Or, and I'd like to think, like I'll give cauliflower crust to try. I'm not, I'm not opposed to it, but I was like Broccoli crust, that's a new one. And I told him and he's just like, why are they making these abominations? It's all because lot and free. I think that's probably why they're doing it. Yeah, that was that was very largely advertised on the box as well. So, but yeah, I like the I like the variety of crusts out there. Let's mix it up. But my my experience was a little less motivating and and, you know, inspirational as yours was, but still just it's just so wild just seeing, you know, like when you'll be struck by things and, like you were saying, totally random items. If you have gotten beef ribs instead of pork ribs, maybe that's that's a completely different price. And so just just so cool to hear stuff like that. And I do want to get back to some of the writing process, but of course we've bonded over basketball, the basketball's big theme and all three of these books. So we got a chat about some hoops moments. When's your your first memory of like, Hey, I'm a big fan of basketball. Who by that probably goes back to Thatou in one thousand nine hundred and sixty five when polly pavilion was under construction. My father was a Ucla Grad and he was the past u sports set over in the skull paper, the daily Bruin, and he was a past president of the Bruin Bench, the alumni organization. So he stilly. Sports was always around the family. Edwin Paully, who was a developer. He put out the word that anyboddy, any alumni, who donated money, he would match it to build this arena and cars. At the time my dad was just kind of giving his career up the ground. Didn't really have the money borrowed, it barred money to donate to build the arena and with that unentitled him too. Was Two tickets for him, I mom like sound court, and then four of them up in the rafters, and so my sister and brother and I rotated taking a person in the fourth seat and I...

...saw every single usually home basketball game from one thousand nine hundred and sixty five, when that thing open, until about nineteen seventy four, when I was kind to do other things with my life. And so every dynasty, every every win, and there were a lot of them over there. That's so, that's where basketball, what's instilled to me at that point. Awesome. That's such a such a good like decade of basketball to be watching too. Like I'm thinking of I'm a university of Miami graduate and they lost today by about thirty points and that's been, you know, pretty part for the course for this year. Obviously, I think you got to take anything that's happening in covid times, with a little grain of salt of you know, it being a little lie, little outside the norm and teams are having to deal with injuries and sickness and all that. But just yeah, like what a what a cool, cool experience. Do you is there a game from that time that particularly stands out to you? Yeah, one thousand nine hundred and sixty nine and Lsu came to town and be Maravich was averaging something like forty points a game and there was a lot of excitement about how the Bruins were going to handle them. So I went to the game. I took my friend Lloyd with me. We were playing basketball, Park League basketball at the time. Great Game. The bruins held Marivach to something like, I don't know, twenty seven or something like that. Held in the twenty seven points on the entire game and they beat him by like forty points. It was the most points the bruins that ever scored back then. After the game you could walk down the steps to the floor way for the players to come out and get autographs. You know, this is a long before the world in which we live right now is changed quite a bit. So I got little well senders autograph, you know, the future cream out duel Jabbar, and waited and waited, waited for Pete to come out. Came out of the locker room and I was sort of stunned by I'll telly was these about six six at the time. I was about five and ten. Ye had the floppy socks on. Didn't look like it's in a very good mood. People came up to him. Hey pepete, and so I waited patiently. Had My autograph book with me, which I'm not even sure people have those anymore, handed in the book and my pen and he signed it. Pistol Pete Maravich gave it back to me and Lloyd put me up to this. I didn't really want to do it, but he maybe, maybe asked. I said, Hey Pete, what was it like to be triple team the entire day? And he just sort of froze and he looked at meet in the eye and I thought he was going to take a swing at me. Said what do you think, man, and I just said thank you and walked away. I thought I was in big trouble. You know, back then, you know, the fifteen year old mine that's that's fantastic and agreed, I think. I mean, I don't don't think I've ever been triple teamed in a game. Maybe, like you know, in a tie game at the final second, just because you know it's obvious I'm going to shoot with...

...one second left, but I can't even imagine that, like just the the amount of work you have to do in a game, and especially someone like pistole. Pete were, like you said, twenty seven points and that's like an off night for him. That's it. He was humbled and that in that afternoon for sure, and then hopefully remembered what you said for four days on end and was just stew it over it. I'm trying to think my my mom bought me a Pete Marevitch Jersey when I was maybe like nine or ten and I didn't know who he was at the time. I was just like because in that era it was stocked him Malone, those those jazz teams of the S, and I was just like who is like Mara Itch? Who was that? And she was like Oh, like, you know, they said he was like the best player ever on the jets, and then I it was probably a couple of years before I really understood just how good he was and how insane he was on the basketball court and just like probably one of the best scores in and be a history of not the best, and it's kind of shocking to think how he played in the three point era, probably averaging like forty points a game with no problem. Yeah, it was quite skilled and there are parts of his personality and his game that are in my protagonist seek archer. You know, certainly the socks and just the mentality of basketball is everything you know. It's your life and it's how you live and breathe and how you read the people around you and how you make sense of the world. Is a prison by which you view this planet. Absolutely and to to bring Zeeke into the current days, how do you think he'd be faring in quarantine life? Just just whoop in all time, all the time. Boy, if you did a lot of spinning with I fall on his index finger, you believing a lot, you know. I guess he would try to find a place to play where you can get away with it. Excellent, and you mentioned you have a hoop in your backyard as well. I know you're a very solid I believe eighty seven percent is the career free throw percentage. Has It improved and quarantine life? It's stuck at eighty seven but, as I have mentioned to you in the past, it is one hundred percent unverified. That's that's been my my like almost pull the trigger on it purchase of the pandemic as a basketball who, but just have I feel like we need to do some yard work first, to like get more of a sort of driveway asked area, like, you know, some sort of asphalt surface, because trying to shoot on grass and dribble I doesn't just seem super, super enjoyable in terms of having the ball bounce back to me accurately, which is, you know, something you expect when you're driveling. I can run any through the brief story of how I came to acquire this court. Absolutely we have a pretty good sized backyard here and really pleased to have that. And I guess it was February of four years ago or...

...so wi passed me when I wanted for my birthday. Of course, jokingly said I'd love have asphal court in the backyard. Next thing I know, there's a meeting between the cement guy and our landscape guy and the pole guy, well the guy that accepts the pole, and there in the backyard walking around measuring and talking and everything. And you know what's going on on here. And you know she arranged for this summit meeting of these these great men to put this thing together. One day this event truck rolled up and you know, for guys on the big hose and about a month later, when everything dry, the striping crew came out and stripe it. And so it's like a look of miniature third of a court, but it has an NBA sized backboard, three out by six feet glass backboard and I could raise it or lower it. One of the little secrets. I don't really tell anybody about it. There's probably no more than a few hundredzero people listen to this. I have it said at nine and three quarters feet rather than ten and I call that home court advantage. I mean, are people really coming out with a tape measure? I think they. I mean they might, they might recognize it by feel, but I think I think you could foremost people. Yeah, I give myself a every break I can out there. Well, aside from these podcast listeners, they'll all know the next time they come. But Hey, yeah, you got to do a home court advantage. We had that in high school for sure. We'd have the go to a road game and they have those stiff rims and I'm like it's one of these places. Yeah, exactly. It's a rough life, roughly and we've kind of talked about this. I'm sure free throws are big part of it, but I've been asking people any other quarantine hobbies that you've picked up. I mean you've already written a book and have been shooting hoops, so that's pretty, pretty impressive, but anything else that you've picked up over the past year? You know, just getting to know the neighborhood better, because there why I'm saying is closed up with North Valley. Why? So I walk the hood a lot. I have a couple of different roots that I take and so I'm getting on my neighbors and the lay it a land out here. That's probably the closest thing in a new hobby that I have. I think that's great. I've been preaching the benefits of walking, just especially when you're isolated at home, like you're probably more likely to be sit in front of a computer all day and just having yeah, just having some routes to walk around the neighborhood. We've lived pretty close to a handful of different traffic circles and so we first moved here, I was like, I don't know where I am at all and I'd be two blocks from my house. And now I'm just like, okay, take a left here. I'm like seven minutes away from my house. To take right here, it's twelve minutes away. I've got it down pat and it's it is. It is fun to see, you know, see familiar faces around the neighborhood. Is here through walking around. For sure. One of my motivators is I get a subscription of the La Times hiss the driveway every morning and being a human resources guy, or at least retired from that, have a keen interest in a lot of...

...things, including the new bitch waries. So I read those every single day and there are a lot of dudes younger than me that have cashed in, you know, and so I'm just trying to keep it going here. If I walking, I'm just trying to keep myself healthy and another motivator would be the fact that I'm a first time grandfather. About six days ago my only child, our son, Zach and his wife, Erica, had a baby on Valentine's Day and so I want to be around to be able to teach that young man. And Elio laslow is, for some middle name of the finer points of free throw shooting and knee available risk and all that stuff. Is Zach into basketball as well? You know he he humors me by being into it a little bit. He's he's a working artist and he's quite skilled at it, but you know, he he follows sports to a certain agree. I don't think he's a passionate about it as I am, but we do talk sports from time to time. Nice, Nice, so you've got some work to do with Elio. It's what you're saying exactly. Yeah, it's never ending. Absolutely. And another question I always like to ask, mainly because it's you doing the work for me, which I'm all about as a host, is heaven and the guests helped me out. But a question that you wish you were asked more frequently, and for you it's this. This is me asking you and then we're getting real met at here. But the question you wish you were asked more frequently, as I'm thinking of writing my first novel. What's the best advice you can give me? And as someone who's written three novels, I imagine you've got some good advice. Yeah, one of the things I mentioned earlier, which is you know, before you do anything, tell everybody you know you're doing it, of course. So key. Another thing is you'll notice from time to time you you hear things coming through your head, the kind of coming one side of your head not the other, and that's something or somebody trying to get your attention. So it's really important to write that stuff down, to document it, because it's fleeting in it. It goes really fast. And sort of an extension of that is my wife got me this thing, I never heard of it or called an aqua pad, where it's basically just a normal pad of paper, has a couple of suction cups that sticks on to the shower glass and it's a number two pencil next to it and it's chemically treated so you can write on it in the shower. So when you're showering all these negative ions are flying around and you're thinking, sort of freeze up and you come up with things and maybe it's a quote or part of the storyline or something like that, write it down and then, you know, you tell off and get yourself set and then head over the office to transcribe it and try to make it work. So those two things, I think. Also, read every book you can read, that you can do, you can tolerate, on how to write a book. We all know what a good one reads like, but writing one's a whole different thing. So if you need help on dialog and read a book on how to do dialog, you know,...

...story, character development, storyline, that kind of thing. You know, do the research to teach yourself the craft. And then, I guess the last thing would be source of really good editorial crew. You don't rely on your English teacher or your aunts or anything like that. I'm sure they're smart and everything, but find somebody who does this for a living. If it's a novel, gets somebody who specializes in developmental editing and line editing, then copy editing, then proofreading. It's so vitally important that every single word in your book has to be there for a reason and it's got to be really clean. And if you're going to self published, then your book has to read a look like it was published by one of the big publishing houses. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. First of all, I'm adding the AQUAPAD to my shopping list because that sounds phenomenal. And I wholeheartedly agree with editing. I know the we've been talking I am putting together collection of short stories and when I was first doing it, I was like, yeah, I'll just like write them and then I'll come back and at it, you know, let them sit for a little while, come back and edit them, and I did. Like I think that's a good thing to have done a self at it before you're working with an editor. But the amount of things that they found that I never would have even spotted is just from from like every like you was talking about, like from the initial I like copy edit, to line editing to proofreading. They were all catching different things and I'm just like, I'm glad, I'm glad I worked with a solid crew, like there's like a people that do this for a living, because they're looking at it with such a keen eye that you just don't have when you're writing. It's vitally important to check your you go out the door in that process. Can't stress that strongly enough. When I wrote my first book, I had read the first draft probably a dozen times and I thought it was perfect. Everything was great, like I didn't even need another and I want I sent it off and I started all these com mints back I realized that was, you know, over my head, and they all the importance of relying on somebody who's has done this for living. In my case, you know, she had done it for for APP decades and it's really, really key to find good talent to help you. And it's funny to like, I don't know if you ran across any kind of foibles or like things that you do that you didn't realize you did. For me it was starting sentences with well, which I don't even do in life, but for whatever reason when I'm writing dialog it was like, well, that's something you should learn and I'm like, Huh, I should cut this out. Yeah, the will and, you know, pretty and really and all those words that kind of clock things up. You know, I learned not to use them through some of the books I read about how to write correctly, and then a good editor that I had, you know, we did them out as well. There's a book by a guy named Benjamin dry are called dryers English. He's a copy editor and he wrote this really brilliant book. It's fun to read about. You know how to do this process correctly and how to understand Chicago manual style. So any resource you can grab and fit, including getting a Chicago manner of style online subscription, because if you could try to stay with them...

...that framework, you're going to save some money on the editorial side. Somebody's not going to have to spend as much time fixing your numbers and your letters in your military terms and all that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point. And because I did just see a discussion around this and because you are a writer, is there a word? I thought this was a great question. Is there a word that you, despite being a writer for a living, despite earning money from writing, is there a word that you always misspell? Yeah, ever, and even I tended that's invisible to me. Few of my stories were published with the wrong word in there, and why? There's not a whole big enough to crawl into at that point. That's certainly one for me. It's just sometimes some words are missing and I can't see it. That's probably the two things nice for me, it was misspell for the longest time and then I told someone that and they're like, oh, just think of it like a teacher, like Miss Pell, and I was like and it's word for me since then at least. So I always love having the little MNEMONIC devices for that. All Right, Craig, you're almost off the hook here. We always like to wrap up with the top three, and this is another one that you prompted us with, and I like to think that we we get along on a lot of topics. We agree on a lot of things, we have similar interest, but this one you're on your own for. This one of your top three current favorite American IPAs? Oh boy, okay, latituohundred and thirty three blood orange IPA. Discovered it at the whole foods market. Just the right amount of citrus and tar and there is beautiful. There's one called Dust Bowl Ipa, a, recently discovered, and the third one would be a brewerycalled three weavers and it's called an expatriot IPA. It's out of Thinklewood, California, and every time I drink one of these I think this is the best beer I've ever had. So those are my top three. I'd love to hear yours very nice. Well, I am a not an IPA fan at all and I are the other podcast I have, parks and wrecked. My cohost, Shawn, is a big IPA fan, so I will make sure that he hears these recommendations. I would say. Trying to think now what my I feel like. I'm pretty varied with beer outside of IPAs. Like I can. I can get down with most other ones. I guess my top three lately is Love Street, a colch style beer from carbock brewing company out I think. I think they're based outside of Austin, but like in between Austin and Houston, although don't don't quote me on that. I don't know the exact location. I also a big fan of live ohkeff, of wisen. I mean halfs are always pretty tasty anyway, but I'm a there's a specially. I'm just like this is, this is a nice mix you...

...take, which yes, yes, absolutely, I that's why I'll order it when I'm out. I'm like, I could get a sixpack of this for like eight bucks, but when I'm out I'll pay six dollars to have the cut orange wedge on it. And this is a side tangent. But a couple of weeks ago we went to an event it's still Austin, which is a whisky distillery, and I had a cocktail called a Wakey Wakey morning baky and it was Bourbon and Maple Syrup and a few other things in there, and the Garnish, instead of an orange or lemon or lime, was a powdered doughnut that had a little hole cut out of it and then stuck on the side and I thought that was delightful. But the part that was in the cocktail, you know, because a little little bit gets dipped in, that was not great. But the rest of the doughnut was a nice garn and then to actually share the third beer I'll go since it's been a little cold here. I'll go with the pecan porter, which is from one two brewery, which is a little, you know, a little heavier. Porters are a little more filling. I probably couldn't drink five or six in a sitting like I could have some other kinds of bears, but when your bones need some warmth it's always a good choice. Yeah, it's a good lineup right. There is such a finishing with the porter or strong play. Thank you. Thank you. That's what I'm going for. Get a strong starting five and then fall apart once we get to the bench. Good deal it will. Craig. If people want to learn more about you, pick up one or, as I would recommend, all three books in this trilogy. Where can I out? Best Way to do that is just my website, Craig Lean Ercom, on all spellow's craigl ee narcom. Everything's right there at Craig Leaner on twitter, two way sort of to reach me. Return all my mail. So, you know, far away, fantastical crank. Thank you so much for coming on now, a three time participant on Joey podcasts. First Time. Good people, cool things, but we're looking forward to having new back on down down the road. Will talk some more hoops and writing. I hope you will consider me as your point man here in Chatsworth California. Enjoy absolutely, and you know this is a trend already. We got to end with a Corny joke. What insect is the best at basketball? What's that? A score? PN? Good after day people, thank you having me on. Enjoy. I really appreciate it. Good people, cool things. Is Produced in Austin Texas you does this episode. Go ahead and hit that subscribe button, whether you're on apple podcast, spotify, stitcher, pod chaser or any other podcast APP. I want to keep delivering great content to you. You want to keep hearing it, tap that subscribe button. We'll see you next time.

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