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Good People, Cool Things
Good People, Cool Things

Episode 54 · 7 months ago

This Was Always About Basketball with Craig Leener

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Craig Leener is the author of three books, This Was Never About Basketball, All Roads Lead to Lawrence, and This Was Always About Basketball. We go all the way back to his first book, so we’ve got plenty in store for the trilogy.

We’re chatting hoops, of course, but we’re also getting into Craig’s writing process and his inspiration for his series. We talk about a few quarantine hobbies and share our favorite beers. No matter your taste, there’s plenty to enjoy. 

And yes, Craig is still an 87% free throw shooter, though that stat is 100% unverifiable.

Good people cool things, an podcastfuture and conversations with entrepreneurs, writers, musicians andother creatives get inspired by their stories to do your own whoil, Faike andhere's. Your host joy help welcome to good people, cool things, hope you'vegot your sneakers ready and your basketballs pumped and full of air,because we are chatting hoops and writing with Craig Leaner author of the.This was never about basketball trilogy, which also includes the books, allroads lead to laurence and the most recent. This was always aboutbasketball, Craig and I go back basically those first books, we've beenchatting hoops for the last few years and he shares his writing process howhe was inspired, how he keeps trank of everything and a trilogry. I can barelykeep track of what day it is and what I ate earlier today and Craig manages allthree books defly, so that they work together as a trylogy, but also ourgreat standalone reads as well. Grig also has experience in Radio TV film,HR He's been all over the place. He's done plenty and he's sharing all kindsof good stuff. On this episode, you like to support good people, coolthings. This is the last week of the sales celebrating a year of the PODCASThead on over to good people, cool thingscom, shshop pick up a sweatershirt hat MUG, some Wallart! Hang it up on the wall. You know you got those zoomeetings. You want something good behind you not trying to get like a barren wall behind we. Why not havesome fun food pun, art to hang up behind you get people talking and whenyou get up to leave, to go, get to your coffee or something you'll. Have a nicebackground behind you or maybe Yi'll just turn your video off like I do inany case, it's good stuff. You just got O head over there. Anything you get istwenty percent off take advantage of it? Don't even need a code. SUPER SIMPLESUPER EASY SUPER! Wonderful, just like this conversation with creg people, don't know who Craig Leener is,give us your elevator pitch and tell us what kind of elevator that we're ridingon while you're telling us about yourself to party zippy one born a Raisei in SanFernamda valley in southern California played some high school basketball. Iwent to college worked in film operations had marner brothers inDisney for a while. I got into post production and human resourcesmanagement drifted, inthe, sports writing and then, as I kind of easeinto retirement, I began writing young adult novels and there we are wee'rebout to the fifteent or sixteen floor. Now it's a very speedy elevator. I like it,I like it, and do you think that your we've known each other just in thatthat latter phase of the bookwriting? Do you think that everything else kindof ladtered up to that, like your post...

...production experience, obviously you'replaying basketball? I think there's a big impact in a trilogy aboutbasketball, but does everything else hat that? Were youkind of pulling from that? As you were, writing these books? I think so. I think, at least in thefirst one the sum total of my life ended up in that first book. I get meeverything. I've ever done any cool, saying I've ever heard it's all inthere and then, when I started to ride thesecond boock I kind of had to go from scratch. The time I spend I tin e resources, amanagement, hiring and firing people and all things in between giving to understand human naturebetter, certainly has helped me to design these characters. I agree. Ithink the writing is super easy to get into and relatable and I'm like. I hearpeople talk like this all the time. It's great you mentione, the coolsayings. Do you have a favorite saying from either the first book or any ofthe ones in the trilogy Oy? I guess that will probably be violenceas of means of resolving conflict doesn't work nice. Yes, I like tha onetoo. I like that one too or people embrace that one and the wor would be alot better, a Tlat better shape yeah. I agree. I agree someone else. I can'tremember if this was on twitter or elsewhere, but I saw something of likewhat would you want a billboard to say like if you, if youcould get a billboard in like downtown Los Angeles and the the top responsewas something like Bekind to each other, and I was like thank you like that'svery simple. I like it you're, not selling anything, get it and then someone below them said by my book, and I was like that's Al, so good I'd havebekind to each other at the time Bi'm a book and the Lotter and within thistrilogy I know, we've talked about this a little bit onm previous podcastlongtime fans of, I can't even say, good people cool things, because you'vebeen on other iterations of previous podcast that I've done. But we'vetalked a little bit about your writing process and kind of putting thistrilogy together. But at that point first time you had done one book. Thesecond time you've done the second book. Now you've done three books with thatthird book. How was how did you bring it all together? Did you have that kindof planed, or was that just a a process as you were, writing it well with the first one I just wantedto get through it, and before I started, I told everythiyg that I knew hat. Iwas writing a book, so I had knowwhere to run if I never finished it. I got this idea when, when I finishedthe first one to leave a door ajar in the last chapter just in case and thenmy editor said, we should keep goine. So then the sequel came forward and like same philosophy again, where Ikept a little bit of jar there in the last chapter and she judy Gitin, histeam was her name. She encouraged me to to keep going because the story arc wastoo high. So at that point I guess it was a pandemic, aidedsituation. I wrote the entire first draft in about four months and trid really hard to make it astandalone, bring him back story so...

...that you could pick it up as itself asa third book and understand. What's going on and wrap it up not too tightly, you can't really laceit up. Like a boxing love, you have to give a little bit of breeding room.SOTHER reader can sort of figure out some things on his heron at the end, sothere's definitely a process there. I had a lot of editorial help for my crewand we finally got there and it was a pretty exciting rive the whole way didyou find that you mentioned the pandemic fueld I first draft. Did you find it was easierto write with? I guess? Well, I don't want to sayminimal distractions, because just you know, looking at the world around usduring a pandemic can be pretty distracting, but without you know, withthat kind of added element to it, did you find it more difficult, easier oabout the same as the first day, I think I was able to lock in a littlemore readily, because I know I didn't have a lot of distractions. o Me Otherthan the global distraction was able to compartmentalize that and deal with iteither before. After my writing sessions and as far as kind of keepingeverything fluid, you said this is a standalonebook like it can. It can serve as that- and I agree, I think it reads very wellon its own, but there is a lot brought back from the first two books.Is that difficult to keep track of everything I feel like when I'm writinga short story? Sometimes I forget what just happened like two pages agos. Sohow do you? How do you keep everything? Do you have like a giant like one ofthose boards with the yarn attaching everyone or or some other way, that youkeep track of everything what' the beginning of each book? Ihave a three byv four foot piece of builders paper that I outline theentire eight point story are com that, and so I have those vigualzations ofwhat is on Yeuc of the books between that Jis, remembering where everythingis that's how I'm able to do it and then,when it comes time for a backstory, what I would actually do is I would. Iwould copy that out of Microsoft word from the previous book and just pacedit into the story and then start to kind of carve it up and change. Somewords and sort of you know shoehorn it into the story in a way that you knowdoesn't tell too much, but just enough to keep har reader o. You know turn onthe pages. Did you have any either an Aha momentor like a hitting the wall moment? While you were writing this, or was itjust head down, get done boy, mostly Aha moments. I guess you what I do Hav the occasionwriters block. I have a good fortune of having a a basketball court in thebackyard, so I'm able to shoot free throwts to get back into a rhythm, but with this one I got the idea forthe story for time travel when I was paying a visitto a place called the Kamaldeli...

Catholic Hermitage up in the mountainsin Bigsir California place that Iy go about once a year, but you have to takea Valli silence when you go there, except when you're, actually in achurch here in the monks chant. So I was up there sort of hanging out for acouple of days and just before one of the prayer sessions there. I sat inthis chapel and I'm a Jewish kid from the valley.So you know I have a lot of interesting routes. You know eastern leanings andso forth, and I sat down with a number two council on a journal and kind ofchanneled, the first chapter it just sort of came through the through theair and then once I got home, I transcribed it and kept Gomong NiceNess I feel like you're. Always you always have very good stories ofinspiration and making get in the starts of these of thesebooks going, and I think, they're great, jumping off points for sure yeah. No for the second one, I went tovisit my dad cemetery where he's very up the northend of the valley and had this conversation with them like. I often dowhen I go to see him and I said to him: Hey if you know kind ofstugging with my story right now, if you know of anything from hereafter HEUwouldn't mind, passing I along and so so I'm driving home from there and my wife usually accompanies me onthis journey, and this time she was under the weather. So I'm driving homeI'm starting to get this idea about human consciousness, not being tetheredto the human brain. I don't know where it came from as I'm driving along theone eighteen freeway head an West tohome, and then my concentration wasjust interrupted with the phone rang this my wife. She asked me to stop in eInte whole foods and pick her up, what's called a willnes shot, which isthis thing where they make a lemon juicon and ginger and apple juice and somcry, an pepper andit's sort of stimulate your immune system, and I thought okay, well allright! Guess I'm going to do this: Il Walk into whole foods and the places ofMeca of commerce realized holy smokes. It's super bowl Sunday, so there'slines everywhere. It takes me forever to buy this stuff and while I'm waitingfor them to make it, I grab a basket and I walk around the prepare foodsection, throw some things into the basket. Just so Sart O kill time I paifor the drink. I gar the checkstand to pay for the things that I bought andthe woman there rings it up, and she says that be nineteen dollars andtwenty six cents and I kin of looked at her like what and she one thousand ninehundred ad tenty six and, of course that's my father's birth year. You know and everything I was buyingwas random and it could have been any amount than it was that amounten itthat was in that moment I knew I was on to something yeah. That's such a it'ssuch a cool story. I, and do you, do you remember the random things that youbought, or just just the total, Mor experets and Samiso soup andtruffle cheese, nice? It's a good, combat, hit's gonna come I yeah. I went. I was actually at the grocerystore earlier today. I just kind of was mosying around as as you've seen in thenews. The Texas winter storms have been...

...hitting hard out here, and this is kindof the first day where it's been a little Sunnier and I starting to mountin everything- and I was just really craving a breakfast Tako. So I'm like,let me see, what's open, like just kind of drive, there's a you know a fewplaces not too too far by so I was driving by them all. They all hadtremendously long lines and I was like okay. Maybe I can stop at the grocerystore, pick up some materials and make some at home. We've got torties at home.We can do it and it was just it was almost like. I was like a dystopian kind of feelingin in half of the store, the parts with like the prepared foods and the producewere all like fully stocked, but anything bakery meat or refrigeratedwas like just totally picked apart. I was telling my friend WHO's a verypurist with his pizza he's like Pepperoni and that's basically it hewon't put anything else on. I told him that there were two frozen pizzas left.They were both Broccoli, crustd and which I've never even seen before, andI'd like to think like I'll give Calie flower cruss to try IM, not I'm notopposed to it, but I was like Broccoli Cruss, that's a new one and I told himand he's just like: Why are they making these abominations? So it's Lo EU free? I think, that'sprobably why they're doing it yeah that was that was very largely advertised onthe box as well. So but yeah I like the. I, like thevariety of cruss out there. Let's mix it up, but my my experience was alittle less motivating nd and you know inspirational as yours was,but still just it's just so wild just seeing youknow like when you'll be struck by things and, like you were saying,totally random items. If you HAV gotten beefribs it seat up pork ribs, maybethat's that's a completely different price, and so just just so cool to hearstuff like that, and I do want to get back to some of the writing process.But of course, we've bonded over basketball, the basketball's big themeand all three of these books. So we got a chat about some hoops moments. When'syour your first memory of like Hey, I'm, a big fan of basketball whoboy that probably goes back fo NeHousand, nine hundred and sixty five when polic Pazilliun was underconstruction. My father was a ECLA Grad and he was the past. Sport enter in thschool pit there, the daily Brun, and he was a house president of the BronBench. He Alumina Organization, so he sily spors was always around thefamily. Edwin polly, who was a developer. Heput out the word that any buddy any alumni who donated money he would matchit to build this arena and cars at the time. My Dad was just kind of gettinghis career off the ground. Didn't really have the money borrowed it. Hebarged money to donate, to build the arena and withthaut entitled him to wastwo tickets for he and my mom like senacourt and then four of them up inthe rafters, and so my sister and...

...brother and I rotated taken a person inthe fourth seat, and I saw every single C Lahom basketball game, one thousandnine hundred and sixty five fon that thing open until one tousand, ninetunered and seventy four Wen. I was trying to do other things with my lifeand so every dynasty, every every win and there are a lot of themover there. That's hat! That's where basketball was INSTILLEDA ME AT THATPOINT: Owsome! That's such a such a good like decade of basketball,to be watching to like I'm thinking of I'm a university of Miami graduate and they lost today. By about thirty points-and that's been, you know pretty part for the course for this year. ObviouslyI think you got to take anything. That's happening in covid times with alittle grain of salt of you know it being a little l little outside the norm, and teams arehaving to deal with injuries and sickness and all that, but just yeahlike what what a cool cool experience do you is there a game from that timethat particularly stands out to you. Yeah one thousand, nine hundred andsixty nine Lsu came to town and pee. Marvish was averaging something likeforty points. A game and hite was a lot of excitement about how the brillangswere going to handle him. So I went to the game. I took my nd Lloyd with me.We were playing basketball, Parkley basketball at thetime, great game, the Bruins held Marigagh tosomething like I don't know, twenty seven or something like that held inTho, Twendy, seven fie km on the entire game, and they beat him by. Like fortypoints was the most points the broons Hav ever scored back then, after thegame, you could walk down the steps to tha floor, wait for the players to comeon and get autographs. You know this is a long before the world in which welive right now is s changed quite a bit, so I got the lwell senders autograph, youknow the future cream oub Joja bar and waited and waited waited for pet tocome out, came out of lock room and was sort of stunned by Otalle wa he's aboutsix six, and at the time I was about five ten ye hat the floppy soks ondidn't look like in n a very good mood. People came up to him, Hey p PT, and soI waited patiently had my autograph book with me, which I'm not even surepeople have those anymore handed in the boock and my pen and he signed it.Pistol Petmerovich gave it back to me and Lloyd. Put me up to this. I didn'treally want to do it, but he mad be maybe ask I said Hep. What was it liketo be triple tin, the entire game and he just sort of froze, and he looked atme in the Ey, and I thought he was going to take a swing at me. Jus said: What do you think man and I just said Buti came and walkedaway ithouht. I wasnin big trouble, you knowback, then. You know the fifteen year old mind. That's that's fantastic and agreed. Ithink I mean I don't don't think I've ever been triple teamed in a game.Maybe, like you know, in a tie, game wi at the final second. Just because youknow it's obvious, I'm going to shoot...

...with one second left, but I can't evenimagine that, like just the amount of work you have to do in a game andespecially someone like Piszl Pete were, like you said, twenty seven points andthat's like an off night for him. That's so he was Cumblein at in thatafternoon for sure and then hopefully remembered what you said for for dayson end and was just do it over it. I'm trying to think my mom bought me aPitmarovitch Jersey when I was maybe like nine or ten, and I didn't know who he was at the time Iwas just like, because in that era it was Stockedham Malone, those those jazzteams of the Nes, and I was just like who is like Marovitch. who was that andshe was like. Oh like you know, they said he was like the best player everon the chests, and then I it was probably a couple of years before Ireally understood just how good he was and how insane he was on the basketball courtand just like probably one of the best scores in NBA history, if not the best,and it's kind of shocking to think had he played in thethree point: Erea probably Havagein, like forty pointsagame with no no problem yeah, he was quite skilled and there are parts ofhis personality and his game that re in my protagonist Secarter, you know.Certainly the socks and just the mentality of basketball is everythingyou know. It's your life and util. You live and breathe and how you read thepeople around you and how you make sense of the world is suprism, by whichyou view this planet absolutely and to to bring Zik into thecurrent days. How do you think he'd be faring in quarantine, life just justhooping, all time, all the time hboy we do a lot of spinning with that fall onhis index finger. You bleeving a lot. You know, I guess he would try to find a place toplay where you can get away with it. Excellent, and you mentioned you have ahoop in your backyard as well. I know you're a very solid. I believe eightyseven percent is the career freethrow percentage. Has It improved inquarantine life? It's stuck an eighty seven, but as I have menchoned to youin the past, it is one hundred percent. I'm Veryfi. That's that's been my my like almostpull the trigger on it. Purchase of the pandemic is a basketball hoop, but just haven't, I feel like we need to do someyard work first, to like get more of a sort of driveway sq area O, like youknow, some sort of asphalt surface because trying to shoot on grass anddribble. I dojust seem superig super enjoyable in terms of having bollbounce back to me accurately, which is you know something you expect whenyou're driveling. I can runin through the brief storey of how I came torequire this court. Absolutely we have a pretty goodsize backyard here andreally plas the have that- and I guess it was February of...

...four years ago, or so my wife assed mewhen I wanted. For my birthday. Of course, Jo Kinley said I love have avassal court in the backyard next thing. I know there's a meeting between thecement guy and our landscape guy and the pole, Guy Nel, the guy that acsetsthe pole and there in the backyard walking around measuring and talkingand everything and what's going on Oun here- and you know she arranged forthis summit meeting of these- these great men to put this thing together. One day this been truck rolled up- andyou know four guys on the big hose and about a month later, when everythingdrie the striving crew came out and striked it. And so it's like a look at miniaturethird of a court, but it has an NBA size, backbard, three, a a by sixteglass backboard and I could raise our lower it one of the little secrets I don'treally telling anybody about, but there's probably no more than a fewhundred thousand people listenti this podcast, I have it said at nine andthree quarters feet rather than ten, and I call that home court advantage. I mean: Are People really coming outwith a tape measure? I think they I mean they might they might recognize itby feel, but I think I think you coand fool most people yeah. I give myself every break. I canout there well said from these podcast listeners.They'll all know the next time they come, but hey yeah. You got to do ahomecourt advantage. We had that in high school for sure we'd have the goto a road game and they have those stiff rims and I'm like. Ah It's one ofthese places yeah exactly it's a brough life rough ly and we've kind of talked about this. I'msure free throws are big part of it, but I've been asking people any otherquarantine hobbies that you've picked up. I mean you've already written abook and have been shooting hoops. So that's pretty pretty impressive, butanything else that you you've picked up over the past year. You know just getig them to know theneighborhood better, because the YMSA is closed up at thenorth alley wine. So I walk the hood a lot, a a couple, F, different rootsthat I take, and so I'm getting on my neighbors and telay in the land outhere. That's probably the closest thing, O new hobby that I have, I think that'sgreat. I've been preaching the benefits of walking, just especially when you're isolated at home, likeyou're, probably more likely to be sitting in front of a computer all dayand just having yeah just having some routes to walkaround the neighborhood We'e. We live pretty close to a handful of differenttraffic circles, and so, when first moved here I was like I don't knowwhere I am at all and I'd be two blocks from my house and now I'm just like.Okay take a left here, I'm like seven minutes away from my house to takeright here. It's twelve minutes away. I've got it downpat and it is, it isfun to see you know. Seese familiar faces around the neighborhood is yereto walking around for sure. One of my motivators is, I get a subscription ofthe La Times, hiss the driveway every morning and being a human resources guy, or at leastretired from that...

...have a keen interest in a lot of thingsat clueing the obituaries. So I read those every single day and there are alot of dudes younger than me that have cashed in you know, and so I'm justtrying to keep it going here. If I walking I'm just trying to keep myselfhealthy and another motivator would be the fact that I' my first timegrandfather about six days ago, my only child, our son Zack and is WyFerica, have a baby on Valentine's Day, and so I want to be around to be ableto teach that young man Ellio Laslo is I first an middle name, an the finerpoints of free, throw shooting and NE available rist and all that stuff is Zach into into basketball as well yeah. He humors me by being into it alittle bit he's a working artist and he's quite skilled at it, but you know h e. He follows sports to a certain degree. I don't think he'sas passionate about it as I am, but we do talk sports from time to time. Nice,Nice, so you've got some work to do with Ella. It's what you're sayingexactly yeah. It's never ending, absolutely and another question. Ialways like to ask mainly because it's you doing the work for me, which I'mall about as a host s is heaven and the gest Helt me out, but a question thatyou wish Syeu were asked more frequently and for you, it's Thi. Thisis me asking you and then we're getting real Meta here, but th.The question you wish you ask more frequently is I'm thinking of writingmy first novel. What's the best advice you can give me and its someone who'swritten three novels. I imagine you've got some good advice, yeah. One of thethings I mentioned earlier, which is you know before you do anything telleverybody you know you're doing it of course. So key another thing is you'll notice from time to time youhear things coming through your head. They kind of come in one side of yourhead and out the other and that's something or somebody trying to getyour attention. So it's really important to write thatstuff down to documented, because it's fleeting and ie goes really fast andsort of an extension of that is my wife got me this thing and I never heard ofthe por called Akapad, where it's basically just a normal pad of paper orhas a couple of suction cups. It six on o the shower glass and it's a numbertwo pencil next to it, and it's chemically treated, so you can write onit in the shower. So when you're showering all these negative ions areflying around and you're thinking, sort of freese up andyou come up with things and maybe it's a quote or part of the storyline or something like that write it down. And then you know you tell offand get yourself sit and then head over the office to transcribe it and try tomake it work. So those two things I think also read every book. You can read that youcan. You can tolerate on how to write a book. We all know what a good on res like, but writingones a whole different thing. So if you need help on dialogue and read a bookon how to do dialogue, you know story...

...on character, gelement storyline. Thatkind of thing you know, do the research to teach yourself the craft, and then Iguess the last thing would be source a really good editorial crew. UKnow don't reline our English teacher or your aunt or anything like that. I'msure they're, smart and everything but find somebody who does this for aliving. If it's a novel, get somebody who specializes in developmental,editing and line edithing than copy editing them proof reating. It's sovinally important that every single word in your book has to be there for areason, and it's got to be really clean and if you're going to self publish,then your book has to Realla look like it was published by one of the bigpublishing houses. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. First, FOll, I'm adding the AQUAPAD to my shopping list, because that soundsphenomenal and I wholeheartedly agree with editing. I know the we've been talking. I am puttingtogether collection of short stories and when I was first doing it, I waslike yeah I'll just like write them and then I'll come back and it you knowI'll. Let them sit for a little while come back and edit them and I did like,I think, that's a good thing to have done a self et it before you're workingwith an editor, but the amount of things that they found that I neverwould have even spotted is just from from like every like. You was talkingabout like from the initial like copy edit to line editing to proof reading.They were all catching different things and I'm just like. I'm glad I'm gladI've worked with a solid crew like you're sinesome people that do this fora living, because they're looking at it with such a keen eye that you just don't have when you'rewriading, it's vitally important, to check your ego out the door in thatprocess, CAS tress. That strongly enough. When I wrote my first book, Iad read the first raft, probably a dozen times an. I thought it wasperfect. Everything was great like I didn't even need anoter and I went Isent it off and I started get all these comments back. I realized at was younonfor my head and they know the importance ofreeloing on somebody who done this for a living. In my case, you know sheantended for four and Alf decades, and it's really really key to find goodtalent to help you and it's funny to like. I don't know if you ran acrossany kind of foibles or like things that you do, that you didn't realize you didfor me. It was starting sentences with well, which I don't even do in life,but for whatever reason, when I'm writing dialogue, it's wast like well,that's something you should learn and I'm like Huh. I should cut this out, yeah the will and the AW pretty andreally and all those words that kind of clock things up. You know I learne not to use themthrough some of the books. I rent about how to write correctly and then a goodeditor that I had. You know we did him out as well. There's a book by a gun in Benjegum,dryer called dryers, English he's a copy editor and he wrote this reallybrilliant book. It's fun to read about. You know how to do this processcorrectly and how to understand Chicago, manial style, so any resource you can grabinincluding getting a chicaganyil styl...

...online subscription, because if youcould try to stay with them that framework you're going to save someboney on the Etotoial side, somebody's not going to have to spend as much timefixing your numbers and your letters and your military terms and all thatkind of thing. Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point, and because I didjust see a discussion around this an because you are a writer. Is there aword? I thought this wis a great question. Is there a word that you,despite being a writer for a living despite earning money from writing? Isthere word that you always misfell yeah ever and even I tend to that'sinvisible to me. FWMYSTORIES were bised with the wrongword in there. Wi there's not a whole big enough to crawl. Anything like thatpoint. That's certainly one for me. It's just sometimes some wordsyaure missing and I can't see it. That's probably the two things Itnicefor me. It was misspell for the longest time and then I told someone that, andthey were like. Oh just think of it, like a teacher like mispell, and I waslike, Oh and it's worked for me since then at least so always love having thelittle neumonic devices for that alright Craik Yeu're, almost off thehook. Here, we always like to wrap up with the top three, and this is anotherone that you prompted us with, and I like to think that we we get along on alot of topics. We agree on a lot of things. We have similar interests, butthis one you're on your own for this one of your top three current favoriteAmerican IPAs, Oh boy, okay, lnuded and thirty, three blood orangeIPA discovered it at the whole fois market, just the right amount of citrusand tar in there, it's beautiful, there's one called dust bowl IPArecently discovered and the third one would be a brery called three weaversand it's called a x Patriot, IPA, it's out of Inkewood, California, and everytime I drink. One of these. I think this is the best beer I've ever had. Sothose are my top three I'd love to hear yours very nice. Well, I am, I m, notan IPA fan at all and are the other podcast. I have parks andwrecked my Co. Sean is a big IPA fan, so I will make sure that he hears theserecommendations. I would say trying to think now what my I feel like I'm pretty varied with beer outside of IPAs like I can. I can getdown with most other ones. I guess my top three lately is Love Street, a coalstyle beer from carbock brewing company O. I think I think, they're based outside of Austin but like in betweenAustin and Houston. Although don't don't quote me on that, I don't knowthe exact location. I also m a big fan of Liveok Hafaf Wisen I mean heffs arealways pretty tasty anyway, but I'm a Thereis aspecially, I'm just like thisis this? Is a nice mix Youre Takingge...

...widge? Yes, yes, absolutely! That's whyI'll order it when I'm I'm like? I could get a six pack of this for likeeight bucks, but when I'm out I'll pay sixdolars to have the cut orange wedgeon it, and this is a side tangent. But a couple of weeks ago we went to an event at Still Austin, which is awhisky distillery, and I had a cocktail caultd a Waki wiki morning baky and itwas Bourbon and Maple Syrup and a few other things in there and the garnishinstead of an orange or lemon or lime, was a Powdere donut that had a littlehole cut out of it and then stuck on the side, and I thought that wasdelightful. But the part that was in the cocktail. Youknow, because a little little bit gets dipped in that was not great, but therest of the Donot was a nice garnish and then to actually share the third beer I'll go since itsbeen a little cold here. I'll go with the pacan porter, which is from fivehundred and two brewery, which is a little. You know a little heavierporters are a little more filling. I probablycouldn't drink five or six. In a sitting like I could have some oftheKunds of bars, but when, when your bones, med, some warmth, thit's, alwaysa good choice, yeah, it's a good lineup right there,especially the connithoing, with rheporter strong play. Thank you. Thankyou. That's what I'm going for et get a strong starting five and then follapart once we get to the betch good deal well, crig. If people want tolearn more about you pick up one or, as I would recommend all three books inthis trilogy. Where can I go best way to do? That is just my website,Craig lenardcom and ipell at CR, Aigl, eenercom everything's right there at Cret Linar on twitter. Two Waysortof to reach me return all in my mail, so you know far away fantasticall Craik! Thank you. So muchfor coming out now, wath three time participant on Joey podcasts. First Time, good people call things butwe're looking forward to having you back on down down the road, we'll talksome more hoops and wrideegg. I hope you lol consider me as your point manhere in Chasworth, California, joy absolutely, and you know this is atrend. Already we got to end with a Corny joke. What's insect is the bestat basketball? What's that a score pn good after Tay People? Thank you, Ov me enjoy. I realyappreciate good people. Cool things is produced in Austin, Texas. You Dog.This episode go ahead and hit that subscryb button, whether you're onapple podcast, sponify, stitcher, pod, chaser or any other podcast at. I wantto keep delivering great content to you. You want to keep hearing it tap thatSube scrib button, we'll see you next time.

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