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Good People, Cool Things
Good People, Cool Things

Episode 53 · 7 months ago

Flash Fiction Writing and Jazz Lounge Metal with Nancy Stohlman

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Welcome to quarantine hobby life, y’all. We’re all trying to learn some new things as we continue to practice social distancing in our homes. But even with some extra time at home, we don’t always want to actually spend a lot of hours investing in something that may just turn out to be a passing fancy. Luckily, writer, teacher, and performer Nancy Stohlman is here to help — in the briefest way possible. 

Nancy is the author of Going Short: An Invitation to Flash Fiction, an inspiration to flash fiction, showing that less is more to lovers of the craft and a valuable asset to those teaching it.

This book is super helpful and is also presented in flash fiction format. It shows veteran and newbie writers alike how to create, sculpt, revise, and collect stories, and is both delightful and super helpful. And guess what — you don’t need to know the first thing about flash fiction, or even be a flash fiction writer, to get a lot out of Going Short.

Nancy also teaches workshops and hosts retreats and knows her stuff, so if you’d like to become a better writer (as we all should aspire to be), then you’ll definitely want to listen to this conversation.

Good people, cool things in podcast,fuature and conversations with entrepreneurs, writers, musicians andother creatives get inspired by their stories to do your own whoal faith andhere's your host Shol Wy, help welcome to good people, cool things. Ihope you're warm and cozy. Wherever you are. I know in Texas it's nice to nothave six inches of snow on the ground, which is unheard of for down here. Sothat's been very nice to see some actual sign walks again and today'sguest well only bring some more warmth, she's Nancy stoleman, author of goingshort and invitation to Flash Fiction, as well as for other books and Nancy,doing just something that I think people need to do more of. They seethat there isn't really a resource or something out there that can help abunch of people with problems, so she just goes out and creates it he's. Abig fan of flash fiction saw that there weren't a ton of books or guys outthere to help people hop into that world. So she went out and wrote goingshort herself. It's a ten year long process, rinting a book, Ain't, easy,we AL say in it: It's not easy, but the en result is super. Helpful Nancy takesus all throughout the flashfiction journey, from creating sculpting,revisioning and collecting stories to best practices for writers in any genre.If you don't even know what flash fiction is if you're, like it's novelor bust for me, there's plenty of good stuff, and here as well and as Nancywill talk about she's got lots of different creative projects. Inaddition to writing, she teaches at the University of Colorado, boulder she's,also the lead singer of the lounge metal, jazz triokinky, mink, whichagain lounge metal, jazz trio. That's apretty unusual thing, but Nancy doing it in style. It's fantastic! We'retalking about back street boys. There's lots of good stuff in this episode sobe sure to buck a op or just sit back and relax in your chair, because youreally don't need to buck a lot to listen to a podcast and if you haven'theaded over to the good people, cool things merch store lately, you mightwant to do it because there's a fantastic sale going on twenty percentof everything in the store to celebrate one year of this podcast, this websitebeing a thing in the world that's worth celebrating, and what better way to doit than with a discount on some fantastic merch from hats, hoodies,shirts, mugs, whatever you need to warm up your spirit and your soul and yourbody, because these are real comfortable as well just hadon over togood people, cool thingscom shop and everything is twenty percent off youdon't even need to type in a code, don't even need to go to a special URL.Just go you pick out what you want and it's already applied for you, acheckout, we're making it' super simple, as all things in life should be justlike this super simply enjoyable. Conversation with Nancy for those of you who don't know who youare, can you give us your elevator pitch, but can you also describe theelevator that we're on while you're telling us about yourself, okay? Well,first of all, we are on a vintage type elevator that creaks a lot and then, assoon as you get off that ground floor, you can actually see everything you cansee the floors like running past you and there might be like a a big kind ofmetal. Cranky thing: that's moving up, it's very frightening for some people,but it's really fun for me and and as we're going up, you can see thiselevator, which is like Victorian, looking and alldecorated, maybe like turn of the century, turn of theninetee hundred century decor, and maybe even ladies with bighats...

...and think titanic titanic and my elevator pitches. I'm in thiselevator is that I am a writer and I'm a writing teacher and professorand everything that goes with writing TBAT. I specialize in flash fiction, soI began as a novelist and I've done all the kind of regular routes of writingand I really landed in flash fiction, which are these really tiny, compressedbeautiful little nuggets of stories, and that has just been my sweet spot.So I write it. I teach it and my new book is all about introducing you to itif you've never heard of it before so, if people have never heard of it beforeI like that, you said flashfiction. This is in the book. Not like you justsaid this, but that it was. It was once marooned in a wasteland and it's becomemore popular over the past twenty five for so years, but I think there's stillsome back and forth. I mean I think most people know fiction versusnonfiction, but then you've got all these different subsets within it.Flash fiction, of course, being one of them there's also microfiction. You'vegot like Vinyetts and all that all that good stuff. So how do you define flashfiction compared to the others right? So the official definition, Iwould say, is two things: It's under a thousand words and that's pretty muchthe agreed upon standard, so a thousand words or less, and it's telling a story.So it's different than say a poem that might be composed of sentences andmight look like pros on the page, but maybe isn't telling he story. Soflashfiction really has the elements of storytelling plot character, that sortof thing and yeah. I think that people have always been writing these tinylittle stories. I mean you can go back in every culture in every time andpeople wrote tiny stories, but I think that flash fiction really has come intoits own with the MONICOR. Frankly, I think, as soon as somebody and JamesThomas 's credited for naming it coming up with the flash kitchen as the name,I think once you kind of created a a flag and stake to that ground, thensuddenly people whohave been writing all these little tiny stories, butdidn't really know what to do with it or what to call it. Or how do I publishit or- or you know what is it it's like a little monster now everybody cangather and they're like wait, a minute guys all the little stories over here.We have a name. We are official, and so I think that, because of the Monicorand because of that legitimacy that comes from that it's become a genre, that's justexploding in the underground I mean I can hardly keep up with people who arefinding plash fiction and- and you know suddenly like getting their world blownopen as they're, either reading or writing flash fiction for the firsttime and realizing like wow. This is a whole different thing and it's reallycool. No, I'm picturing a little flash fiction monster and there's not amascot already we'll have to do some. Some design word to make it lof it andyeah. I think I mean my introduction tof flashfiction, I think, is probably similar to a lot of Peuples of like you know. Icame across some of it and was like wait. A minutelike this is a full story, but it's like so condensed and short and it's. Ithink it really is a good example of like how to be direct and cut down onyour words, but you can still be descriptive even with that sort ofupper word limit, and it's like a very nice balance of kindof being. You know not overtly flowery, which I think is super easy to do, butalso having like a lot of good descriptors in it,and so do you remember, and I'm sure you have consumed all kinds of flashfiction. But do you remember the first time you ever read it or the first onethat made you think, wait a minute.

This is something I want to be doing M.Well, yes, I definitely remember the first time I was introduced to it andit was when I was in graduate school. So this was about twelve years ago andat the time I was, I considered myself a novelist, and I was I had always been writing kind of longform, kind of classically structured pieces, and I I took a class on flash fiction becauseI never heard of it and it sounded interesting- and I remember the firstfew weeks of the class as I started absorbing what this was and we'retalking like two thousand and eight, so it was even less defined than than itis now. I was as I was, writing it turning itin. I was really struggling. I was like I'm so used to writing long form, so Iwould kind of take my long form stories and just sort of chop them up and thensubmit them as ash fiction and that works for a little while you can kindof pull that off for a little while until you realize, like you're missingthe point, the point of lash fiction is like you just conceive the worlddifferently. It would be the same as if I took a short story and I put linebreaks in it and I called it a palm. It's not really a poem, it's a shortstory with line breaks in it, and so for me it was all about realizing thatI could see the world through an entirely different lens through thistiny little flash fiction lengs and then, when you kind of hold that lensup to the world, you see all these little tiy stories everywhere and sofor me it was. It was like permission to stop adhering to this kind of classicalstructure that I've been so married to partially, because I didn't know therewas any other way so as soon as I really embraced it andstarted actually writing flash fiction pieces, not just cannibalizing my ownwork. I realized like wow. Sometimes you really only need five hundred wordsto say it and if you thought it needed to be ten pages long, you could end upcreating this sort of diluted thing. That really should have only been fivehundred words to begin with. You went from novels to flash fiction, but then H, why a book y? What inspired you toput this book together? Was it just like? Hey I'm seeing all this kind ofmisinformation out there or you were like hey. This would have been superhelpful when I was getting started. So why not make it happen? Kind of both and all as early as twenty ten, I would say, as I started, publishing plash Fictiongand then I actually with the people. In my graduate class fiction, class and MIin graduate school, we actually put together a press like an Indieflashfiction press, so we started publishing flash fiction and just kindof playing around with it, making ethoologies and and so as early as twenty ten peoplewere coming up to me and saying, like wow, can you rokommen like a book aboutflesh fiction like if I want to learn more about plash fiction and how towrite it, and I couldn't recommend a book because there wasn't a book andthe only books that there were were anthologies of people's Fash fiction,including the northlyathologies which are great and those are those are the ones that James Thomashas been doing for years and where the name came from and as a teacher which Iquickly became a teacher after that, we had to just use the athologies and wehad to kind of create our own curriculums, because there were thesecraft writing books. That were flashfiction specific, so so I decided,I bet a a right one, since there isn't one and I sort of thought it would be. I didn't think it was going to take meten years to do it basically, but but I started writing it, and I was like okay,all the things that I keep having to tell people over and over, I'm justgoing to write them down yea and all the things that I'm using in myworkshops. I'm going Ti just start writing them down and it just becamethis...

...crazy. I don't want to use the wordmonster again, but it just became this unruly thing where it was like the moreI started writing about ash fiction. The more I grew as a writer and themore that the genre changed it's been. You know this is a living genre. That'sgrowing and changing like right under our fingers, all the time, which isextremely exciting, and so I had to keep adding to it and updating it, andthen I became smarter and I would have to change all section because I didn'teven know what I was talking about. Two years ago and and on and on and on andso finally, ten years later, the book came to a stopping point. I won't saythat it's finished, because I could still be writing it for the next tenyears, but it came to a stopping point and it was time it was time to put it outthere, and so much of what's in there came from me being both a teacher and awriter of it like in the mud of it. So it feels very personal to me as well.As you know, this is everything that I know from like being on the forefrontof lsh fiction for the last twelve years. I hope it helps you basically and do you have plans to kindof turn it almost like an encyclopedia where you're coming out with updates,since it is such a rapidly changing world or is it like ive spent ten yearson this there's a lot of good stuff in it enjoy, at least for the next coupleof years. Right Ie never considered that, but I'm going to suck that. I dono way take two percent royalties for the idea. Yes, Youan one person, OLperson, no, I think at least as soon as it cameout. I had this feeling almost of like exhaustion, where it's like. Iliterally have nothing else to say about lash fiction that I haven't saidin that book. So there's a little bit of this feeling of like everything thatI know about plash fictond I put in there now a couple of years, fom nowI'm going to have so much more to say about it and I'm already kind of sayingnew things about different angles of it. But yeah there's a part of me that feelslike that one's going to be good for a little while- and I suspect that now that the ground has kind of beenbroken a little bit that there may be other people who kind of throw theirtwo cens into the arena as well, and that will sort of round things out yeah for sure, and you can say hey. Iwas here before all of you, so Ye yes, and of course you know there are alwayspeople before me. We all we all stand on the shoulders of others. Absolutelyhave you I or I guess, since the book. It's still so new. Are you introducingit to your class? Is Part of the curriculum or do you just kind ofmention like hey? Maybe maybe you should read this to yeah I've sort of been doing it thatway. For now, I haven't figured out a way that felt like tactful to be likeand by the way, if you turn to page twenty of my book Youwill See, but I do definitely quote it. You knowI'll be talking about something and I'll say you know what I already saidthat in the book, so I'm just goingto kind of cut and pace the book here and quote that section there. So I'm usingit more in that way right now her I'm kind of offering little tid bits thatare separate from the whole book and I'm feeling like that's what I need tobe doing more, even on social media to is just kind of offering these littlelike insights, so that people you know, I think, especially for somebody whomaybe doesn't know about flash fiction. I think you know buying a whole bookthat can be intimidating, so I think just kind of offering these littlelessons as people start to warm up to the idea, I think, is the next thingthat I'm going to be doing and things like that being on podcast. Talkingabout it writing you know for other magazinesand such so yeah. That's that's sort of how I seeit happening, but I don't know it is brand new, so I don't really know yeah.I think it is kind of a big sandbox...

...where you can experiment with things,and I was over here nodding, saying yeah, that's what I'm doing withpodcasting too, like some people are not in a position or mood even tolisten to a a forty five minute podcast but they'll, listen to US thirty tosixty second audio clip and still get something in value out of it. So Ithink those are all good ways to kind of take it, and I think that'ssomething that is very enjoyable about the book. Is that you you can you know, get through it pretty easily?I think there's a lot in it, but it's not like overbearing and thateverything is laid out really nicely and neatly and Kudos to you for makingit something that I think is accessible.Even if people really don't have an introduction or much knowledge aroundflash fiction. Thanks and and I'm glad you brought that up because for peoplewho are listening I'll, try to describe what it looks like so there's a lot ofwhite space in the book and I actually wrote the chapters as as if they were flashfiction pieces, soyou'll get a chapter, that's just one page, you know, or maybe one and a halfpages. So you can pretty much sit down open the book to any page and You coulread a chapter in about three minutes and that's really intentional, becauseit was sort of like. Let me talk about the form while demonstrating the formand so yeah there's a lot of white space. I think the whole book is arounda hundred and it's just over a hundred pages. I wantto say- and you could probably read it in a couple of sittings if you werereally dedicated, but I think you could also use it almost like a like adivining mechanism where you, you know open it up and get your lesson of theday and then get to work writing at least that's hi. It was hoping that itwould be used. No, I think I think that fits in nicely. Maybe I need to startdoing that it'll be my little like three minute. WAKEUP call. I love itand get into writing and obviously flash fiction is it's own Bahemith forlack of a better word, but can people who are maybe doing novel writing or putting anonfiction book together? Can they have some takeaways from this too? Definitely. Definitely- and that's oneof the things that I say early on in the book is that I think you knowpeople come to flash fiction from different doors, so some people are newto writing in general. So everything they're going to learn about flashfiction is also just going to help them become a better writer. But if you'recoming from say long form fiction like writing, novels or writing nonfiction,say your Wreati memor or from poetry, you're, going to come into fash fictionwith different strengths and you're going to find your weaknesses. So Ithink that it can help you be a better writerregardless, for instance, so if you're a novelist say coming into flashfiction, YOU'RE, probably already pretty good at storytelling narrativeplot character. All of that sort of thing, you're, probably going to struggle withthe word count. You're, probably going to find the challenge is going to bearound that constraint of a thousand words and you're going to want to goover you're going to feel like it's not enough and you're going to really haveto challenge yourself to rethink what you want to say through asmaller Lens. On the other hand, let's say: Let's saeyou're coming from poetry, you're, probably pretty good at workingin a small space. You know working within constraints, getting veryprecise about your language using white space, but maybe you have not homed theskills of plot and storytelling in that small space. So I feel like, even ifyour intention is to be a different sort of writer, flash fiction is goingto teach you things about your own...

...writing that are going to help you,regardless, regardless of your genre or your aspirations. Yeah for sure- and one other thing thatI always love asking authors about- is the book cover. You know the old phrase never judge abook by its cover, O people do people see covers, especially nowadays, ifyou're doing your shopping online. Although I still think one of thesimple pleasures in life is visiting a bookstore, a physical book star, Ithink it's they're, so wonderful, so charming and quirky and fantastic, buta lot of us are maybe doing a browsing through digital windows similar topodcast and you're scrolling through you've got maybe like fifty optionsright in front of you. So talk about the cover here and how did you come tothe final decision? HMM, I love. The cover of the bookcovers are one of my like special pleasures and having worked only with Indie pelishers.Up until now, I've got you know five different books out there and I've beenable to design or at least have a hand in designing all my covers. So that'sone of the gifts of working with indie publishers, but I love this cover. Itwas designed by Janislee, Agra she's, also a wonderful flsh fiction, writerand a wonderful artist. She's got all sorts of things online. I will say hernames, slower, Jenis, Leagra, Lea Gr a and the idea for me was that the cover Iwanted it to have this allison wonderland fiel without being overtlyAllis in wonderland, because I had this idea of, like you know, going short,you know the book is called going short and this idea of, like you know, do youknow drinking the coulad and suddenly ending up tiny and going through thetiny door like there's the tiny little door, but you're too big to go throughthe tiny door until you drink the COULEID and the book is like the Gulaid.So so the cover has this very kind of it's subtle, but it's got this kind ofsubtle, trippy feeling to it. That's in my mind, reminiscent of inviting you in to the tiny door to seewhat's in there, so I really loved the way that she pulled that off and yeah.I just think it's delightful. I love it yeah. I think it's a really eyecatching coverni. I, like the Alison, wonder hat. I could definitely see someof the the influences of that there and I like to me. I like t e the door likethe doorway of leaping into it and exploring this new world very well donethanks yeah. I love it. I think I mean for me, I'm you know, I'm obviously awriter, but I'm very like I dabble in all sorts of creative realms, and sothe visual is just so compelling to me. I think if I had other lives, I wouldyou know, dabble and all sorts of other things, but yeah I would never. I would never have a cover that didn'tjust like knock my socks off. I look at some people's covers and you know it'sa simple cover and that's beautiful and elegant my covers are not usually elegant,they're, usually a little wild yeah. I think that's that's more! That's more!My speed to I can appreciate a good like catcher in the Rye. Just you knowa white cover basically, but right. If I'm designing it, I want. I want somerandom random stuff in there, maybe even an Easter aggor two throughthrough a couple miss things: aiactly yeah and you kind of teed this upnicely talking about your other creative endeavors as well, and we'regoing to have to talk about Kinky, mink, your lounge metal, Jazz Tria, which Idon't know if I've ever seen those words in succession of a lounge metal,jazz trio. How did how did all this come about? Yeah, yeah, yea? Well, andI think again it was one of these ideas...

...that was, I had of it time. We starteddoing it in wo, thusand Andleven, I want to say my partner is a classical pianist and we just started kind of messing aroundyou know, I'm a singer not. I wasn't a professional sing at the time, but I'vealways been a singer musical theater background, and all of that, so justyou know we're messing around. We would just start playing throughlike song books, but start you know, improvising them in these jazzy loungestyles. It's definitely been something that a a band like the postbotter Ju box is doing now andthat sort of thing, but it just caught on and with my partnerbeing, you know, classically trained and all of that he can do all thoseclassical trills. We just said you know what happened ifwe did Azzi Osbourne Juzz, lounge style, and I got in a sparkly, dress and Laiton top of the piano and very influenced by like the fabulousBaker Boys, which is a great movie. If you haven't seen it any of yourlisteners out there, it's classic S, Michelle Piper lying on the piano and singing, and sowe just did a lot of that, and I mean Ozzi Osbourne an Metalica, andyou know then things like Bon jovy and just uzy top and just had so much fun. And then, ofcourse, this whole element of theatrics with it we got a Drumar. So there wasthree of us and yeah. We just had so much fun and wehave so many stories to of like being booked to play in a let's say,quote: Regular Jazz Club and then next thing they know they're getting likewhite wedding, and I mean like a wedding dress. You know singing thiscrazy, like white, wedding, lounge style with reverb and all this stuffand they're like yeah. You can't come back Ebut, it's been so much fun andit's just been this other place for me to explore creativity and all of these thingsinfor. My writing. So I think the more creative avenues you have the better,but it's just been such a joy. I just love it and then we've written a coupleoriginal things to we've got a couple music videos on YouTube. The one of them is timy up forChristmas, which is our big Christmas iollng and it's very silly and yeah. Soyou can have funner munch thoes as well, fantastic, I'm looking forward to it. Ididn't know there was some youtube action as well Christmas Christmassongs, that's a smart musical play. You always get yeah! Get that longevity.That yeah, you don't always get exactly like. I like it, creative and smartbusiness accuban exactly and something I always like toask musicians, although maybe you touched on this with the surprised, jazz venues, but if there is a worse Gig than that,what's the worst show that you've ever played worst show yeah, I mean I rememberplaying in this French restaurant and she the rest. We should have known that therestaurant was not going to make it an therefore their clientele. They may nothave a lot of people, but she was like you know: I'd lovefor you to do like abrunch and at that point, we'd added a few things to our repertory that, wereyou know, family friendly and that sort of thing,so you know riffs on its anentre and that sort of thing but she's like Ilove you to do like the Sunday runch and we've got. You know this French,Brunch and mamoses in the whole bed, and so we said Okay and it wasn't, itwasn't our ideal gay, but we were like you know. It seems cool this Frenchrestaurant ar cafe was kind of cool and...

...there was just one person in the audience for aboutthe first forty five minutes, and that person was a person that I had 'n bi orwho had gotten the notice through my social media. So I hadn't seen her inyears and there she was like with her husband and there both eating theirxpenidect and looking embarrassed for US rlike. Oh my gosh, you don't have tolook at us. Finally, of course people started coming in, but you know it wentout of business shortly after that so yeah. I think we really learned to notjust take any GIG because it was offered but to make sure that, if we're goingto get our audience motivated that it's going to be worth their time yeah, I think that's a good, a goodlesson. Hopefully you got a nice brench out of it, though, if nothing yeah wedid, we got. We got a good brench French brunch. It was tasty, yeah,French Frenches, usually pretty good. It's very nice yeah yeah, it's the Niceperks, an every but and and it makes for a good story later on. I thoughtthat was very enjoyable. I know it's always terrible in the moment, butthat's one of my favorite things to ask musicians well and so much of what wedid, especially at the beginning was we were just over the top so much that ouraudiences would, you know they would leave with their jaw sort of like. I don't even know what to say tothatyoreal like just not expecting it at all, like as Iwer talking about the wedding dress. So when we would do white wedding, I wouldput on this whole wedding, dress and then come like walking through the Isleof people, which is great if you're in like a weird club, but when you're in,like a classical jazz club and they're expecting classical jazz, and here's,like you know, like a weird procession, gote looking you know into this whitewedding, I remember we used to lavgethere. Wasthis jazz musician? Who is really well known in Denver and he came to one ofour shows and we overheard him at the bar talking to somebody else, and hewas like that ain't jazz. We just said we should naw our nextalbum that it juzz so yeah. I find that what I do creatively tendsto be at these crossroads of multiple genres. So that's kind of what happenedwith kicking mink is that you know we hit this crossroads of Jazz, lounge,music S, heavy metal, like performance. You know I'm on guard performance and, and it created this thing that didn'tdoesn't really have a name. It doesn't have a category and that's probably howflush fiction seems to people for a long time. You know what is this? Is ita story? Is that a poem I don't know what' to call it? I don't know where itfits, and so I find that a lot of my creative work ends up in these crossroads of multiple categories. I mean, I think, that's more fun to me. It soundslike you get to you get to dip your toes in a lot more than I mean. Do youjust want to be playing straight up jazz now, Y? No, the people are much morecomfortable with it, but it's bortant as a creative. It's boring one of thethings that I created with that with my partner and with people who are inKinke, mank and and others we did. I wrote a book in two thousand andthirteen called the monster opera and it's very overguards. The weirestthing I've ever written and my partner wrote an opera score to it and weactually made like an Opareta out of it and then performed this operetofmultiple times and again people were like what was thatyou know at the end. But what was cool is that we did at once and everybodyjust sort of had this like shop to look on their faces. They were leaving andthen the next year we did it again and...

...it was just packed and people ware,like you have got to see this. You know and so yeah. I think that I find that a lotof my work is like a little bit ahead of what people are comfortable with,but they eventually catch up. That's a wonderful way. To put it.That's some good word of mouth as well. Getting getting the jaws up off thefloor and getting bodies in the seaits- or I guess standing probably is- is nomore accurate there, but fantastic all around, and I will certainly link tothe music videos an the show ats for the episode. So everyone can get somegood jams, one other music question before Youre before we head into thetop three outside of metal songs. What is one of your like it comes on? Youhave to start belting singing along. You know if you're in the car you'reout at the park, even you're listening to headphones, while your groceryshopping. What's one of those songs right pretty much anything but a Y am, Iallowed to say, backstreet Blacei will yeah, so I will start singing backstreet boys and you know I have a son who's horrifiedby this and that's okay, I'm also like I love elepits Gerald. Iwill sing anything that elpis Gerald is singing. I think she just has like thismagical syrupy voice that I love so much but yeah. My guilty pleasure is theback street boys. Do you have a favorite backstree boy? No, no! I have not gotten that deeplyinto it because, if was shamed, that's fair, that's fair! I am alarmed at how extensive my Baxtree Boys nowlegics, Iwal, okay, Yeah Yeah. I would like to credit my sister who was she was fourteen or fifteen when baxster boyswere hitting their peak. So you know that's that's prime time for gettinginto that. Ine Yeah culd still, certainly name them all. I definitelyfell off after the you know the prime years in the early twosands, but I can name more than a handful ofBaxter boy songs, which is probably I love it. Probably more than most peoplecan do, and I thought the documentary was pretty interesting as well, which Iam totally blanking on the name on, but certainly not groundbreaking, but ithad a couple moments in it. Where I was kind of right, you know there's someinternal turmoil that we never knew eist right, yes, the making of a gooddocumentary. I have not seen that documentary, but I'm going to see itnow this weekend proba excellent Xlam, so yeah gapire you and there's yeah, there's I remember verylittle from it except whell. I don't want to spoil the scene, but there'sit's hen, Brian and nicker yelling at each other. So when, when you get tothat part you'll know, oh no il know exactly yeah how fun! Oh I'm excited.This makes my day that the succest I'm goingto Nov, so much more, I'm going tobe able to answer, which is my favorite one. If you talk to me after theweekend, oh I'm, following up on Monday, with immediately with Ta Vexra Bos,Quiz and questionaire I'll be ready, because I'm prepared, like thatexcellent excellent. I know it'll steer you the right way and we're almoststeering ourselves to the end of this podcast. But first we've got a wrap upwith our top three and we were chatting a little bit before this that one ofthe things in your bio is that you aspire to be a pirate some day, and soI assume this will be one of your answers, but maybe you'll go rogue withthree other ones. But what would your top three alternate lives be? Well, I have to put pirates yeah, ofcourse, and I've always had this like overlyromanticized ideal of the pirate, as just this like lovely rebel, and Ithink that's really what I am deep...

...inside is this lovely rebel. I mean, Ithink, that I don't want to necessarily kill people so bat, but if I could justhave the pirate life without any of the killing part, I think just looting andyou know drinking and throwing things it just it's so lovely and there's justsomething. Every time I see a pirate flag or anybody like flying a piratelag. There's just this kinship to me. Re like yeah, like you wand me, let's do it so yeah I would have to be a piratealternate lives. I think a movie star like that was my that was my first oneas early as Yor, four years old, where I was just you know anythinghaving to do with being a movie star I went to you know I was a musicaltheater person and had all these different likeaspirations about how I was going to go to Hollywood and all of this andthere's still this time a little part of me. That's like you know what Icould still do it right now, so definitely being a movie star, and thenI think, my third, it would have to be something creative. I think thatthere's a part of me that would love to like be a fashion designer, maybe notnecessarily model but like creating clothing, I'm really into fashion andjust kind of the all the not again not like classic Frenchfashion, but more like David boy. You know like how could I, how could I takefashion and again hit that juxte position of multiple things so yeah? If I could have a couple extralives this time around? I think that's what I do with them: fantastic choices.I'm certainly more of the I don't even think I'd be in David Bowy. I'd be likewhat can I put together with these, like eight scraps of fabric, that Ihave and a look atrocious, but hopefully someone would enjoy wearingit exactly fantastic, well Nancy! Thankyou so much. I thought this was a absolute joy. Much like reading goingshort is. If people want to pick up a copy of the book or want to learn moreabout you, where can they go yeah? So my website is my name Nancystolencom, that STO HL NAN altogether Ad Hawk fiction is the publisher AdHack to words, fiction and books on Amazon and all of that, as well, and also on my website. If you arewanting to learn more about workshops that I'm giving, I also do flesh fittinretreats. As soon as we can travel again, I've got all sorts of greatplans for that workshups, especially over the summer.So there's a lot of good stuff happening over in my website. I'd loveto see you over there. Fantastic will all be there and, ofcourse, we'll share some Kinky mank as well. Given all the creative outlets,some love and as we often do, I say often as we always do on this show,let's end with the Corny joke and we'll keep it riting themed. What Oyou call a writer who doesn't follow the classic rules of sentence structure?Oh No, I don't know a rebel without a clause after Teday Pepei love that I'mgoing to use that good people cool things is produced in Austin, Texas,you dog! This episode go ahead and hit that subscribe button, whether you'reon apple podcast, Spotifi, stitcher, pod, chaser or any other podcast at Iwant to keep delivering great content to you. You want to keep hearing it tapthat subscribe button. We'll see you next time.

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