Good People, Cool Things
Good People, Cool Things

Episode 139 · 2 months ago

139: How I Built It with Joe Casabona and Shanté Cofield

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Welcome to a classic podcast swap! I'm sharing an episode from Joe Casabona over at How I Built It because it's incredibly useful for you in your business and brand-building journey.

In this sneak peek episode, Joe chats with Dr. Shanté Cofield on a ton of helpful stuff. Let's peep the highlights:

  • On imposter syndrome: We need to get objective and trust the data. It’s easy to get down on yourself, not want to brag, and feel like you’re not the real deal. But you need to listen to what people are telling you. If you help them, you are helping.
  • It’s easy to want to talk implementation of your new business or content because that’s concrete. But you need to define your values first. Without values, you are directionless.
  • On values: value-based marketing is not shouting your opinion on Twitter. Values are verbs. They are things you do, vs. the things they say. They are how you build your best life, and they need to be at the core of your business. 

Enjoy this conversation and check out How I Built It for even more cool conversations with business owners doing great things (hmm...sounds very fitting for this show!). We'll be back to episodes of Good People, Cool Things next week!

I committed perhaps the most egregious of offenses this week. I traveled and I didn't bring any podcast equipment, and that truly is devastating, because what I neglected to do was record an introduction before I left for today's episode, which is a little different than normal because it's not my show. Yes, I'm doing a nice little swap with Joe Casabona of How I Built It. If you're a fan of this show, you will certainly be a fan of that show. Joe interviews business owners who were doing well. But as you know, if you have a business, not everything is sunshine and roses. I know that because I decided to come to Los Angeles the one time of year where it's a torrential downpour all the time, probably wouldn't recommend for a pretty bumpy landing getting in. But that's all right, that's all right. And while this introduction might be a little ragged with birds in the background, sounds like a Disney film outside. Hopefully that's not too loud on the mike, but I don't know, Maybe it'll just make it more charming. Thankfully, Joe's episode sounds pristine. He's talking with Chante co Field on impostor syndrome, Why we experience it, Why it's important to get objective and really look at the data you have and before you think big picture, long term strategy. Why you need to get your values in place. Oh, I mean, we've seen how Twitter has gotten lately. Value based marketing is not just shouting your opinions on Twitter. As much as many people seem to think that that is not the case. I love the way Shante puts it. Values are verbs. So you're gonna learn quite a bit in this episode. It's fantastic. I'll see you next week with another episode of good People, Cool Things. But for now, here's Joe Cassabona and how I Built It. Enjoy, get a real job if you're going to start a business and you need to grow hustle. If you're starting or have a business, you've probably heard all of this quote unquote advice. You've also probably heard that you need to do exactly what someone else did. When I was starting my first business, someone told me if I wanted to be successful, I had to wear suits every day. But all of that is poison to our creator businesses and Dr Shanty Cofield the movement. Maestro has the antidote more you. If you want to know the importance of values based marketing, how to be vulnerable enough to grow, and about the seasonality of life and business, this episode is for you. I met Shante at Craft and Commerce, and my conversation with her is real. I might even get choked up during ard of it. It's it's so important for anyone who works for themselves to hear. So here's what I want you to look for, talking about imposter syndrome and being objective and trusting the data, talking about the big picture value stuff before talking about implementation and why values are so important values or verbs, as Chante will say. So I really hope you enjoyed this episode. You can find everything that we talk about and maybe join her community, which looks fantastic. Over at how I built dot Slash to eight five, I want to thank this week's sponsors, Nexus and learn Dash, So stick stick around and and stay tuned. I really really loved this conversation. But first let's get to the intro and then the interview. If you're looking to start a small business or side hustle, or already on one business, Brain is a podcast definitely worth listening to. Dave Hamilton's and Shannon Jean, two longtime business owners, come to you each week to talk through the trials, successes, pitfalls, and tips it takes to successfully run a small business in today's world. Here, real world folks talk about real world problems, letting you know not only what it takes to get it done, but that you're not alone in doing it. Business Brain covers topics like thinking of mistakes as tuition a d h D in owning a business, and revenue streams no matter where you are in your journey. Dave, Shannon and the business Brain community are there to help start engaging and learning with business Brain at business Brain Dot Show or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. That's business Brain Dot s h o W head there today and tell them I sent you for a free gift of their book, We Love...

Mistakes. Your key to living a charmed life is right around the corner with business Brain. Hey everybody, and welcome to How I Built It, the podcast where you get free coaching calls from successful creators. Each week you get actionable advice on how you can build a better content business to increase revenue and establish yourself as an authority. I'm your host, Joe Casabona. Now let's get to it all right. I am here with Dr Shanty Cofield a k a. The Movement Maestro. Do you prefer Dr Cofield or Shante or Maestro whatever? Santa is fine. Honestly, a lot of people call me maestro too, so it's no one calls me doctor so anything. I assume he doesn't listen to this podcast. But my brother's friend's dad, like we were like on it like a church council thing. I got roped in because I was doing the website. I was telling you about in the pre show and the big money exactly. And I said, oh, hey, Mr soans so, and he goes, actually it's doctor so and so. And I'm like, you're a dentist though, like, be a little cooler, please, not really being a dentist is easy because it's not and like my teeth or a disaster. But like, come on, man, like I've known you since I was like four, You're gonna throw the doctor at me right now? I love it. Actually be a little cool. I was like, I'm gonna get my PhD just to make him call me doctor anyway. I have Shante here I'm really excited. We met at Craft and Commerce and your talk about like being more you like really resonated with me. So I'm psyched to talk about just kind of like values based marketing, building a good life, like best life building is how you put it, and we're gonna talk about how it bums me out when people say they don't have hobbies like outside of work, because I have many hobbies, and we'll talk about those in Build Something More, which you can sign up for over at How I Built That itt But I usually don't ask you to do the intro. But you are a physical arapist and you've kind of moved into it's like business coaching. Yeah, online business coaching. Man, it's like a very nebulous title, but yeah, I moved over to that. First off, the dude, thanks for having me on, Like, thanks for coming up and at the conference and just being so dope and thanks for having me on. This is I don't think it lightly people invite me on their podcast. It's a big deal. You expose me to your audience, and I'm grateful for that, grateful for the air time with that, So thank you, and yeah, like you said, my background physical therapy, but I learned that that wasn't my best life, it was part of it, and so I became a physical therapist, very interested in movement, didn't want to go to med school and went to physical therapy school instead. I went through all that, graduated, I became a physical therapist, basically hated it and was like, this is not what I signed up for. Our I don't know if I'm actually helping people or people are getting better because I'm telling them not to do the things that they want to be doing. I'm not telling them to not do their hobbies for six weeks, and so I was like, I don't know, man, I don't think this is the way. Stumbled across Instagram, largely because I started doing CrossFit and I was just looking for more things to learn about it and more places to connect with people. At the time this there's far less people in the space putting out content about movement. And I saw this guy, Kelly Strette, people almost cast our mobility wad Supple Leopard. I was like, I think I could do that. I'm not going to become him, but like I could share my ideas. There's another guy out there, wad Doc, And I was like, I could share my ideas. That was largely it, right. I went into the space just to share ideas. It wasn't like I'm going to create a brand and I'm going to become a creator, because that wasn't really a thing. It just wasn't as popular of a thing. And I was like, I'm a physical therapist. I want to share my ideas, started posting on on Instagram, got hooked up with a company called rock Tape, went to a class, became an instructor and learned I loved teaching, and basically since then it's just been kind of an evolution of doing less of the things I don't like and doing more things that I do, like a KA building my best life, and made the hard pivot actually just into only doing business coaching. Before I was still teaching movement and coaching movement classes for other professionals and was like, dude, I'm done with this. I've been done with it, but now I'm ready to officially announce I'm done with it. And now I help other movement professionals, largely PTS, Cairo's people like that, trainers and such. I helped them brand themselves in the online That's awesome. So First of all, I just want to highlight here right, that you're teaching within your domain knowledge, which I think is cool. Right. I think a lot of people are like, I'm gonna coach anybody who wants to be coached. That's tough, right. People come to me and they'll be like, oh, yeah, can you coach me on whatever? And I'm like, I don't know anything about whatever. But my question here is when did you feel confident enough to start coaching? Right? I think this is maybe I suffer a little bit from imposter syndrome. It took me a long time to call myself a podcast coach because I was like, it's not like I'm whoever like giant podcaster person, and like, why would people want me to coach them?...

So, like, when did you feel like what pushed you to call yourself a coach? You know What's so interesting? I love to use that example because so much is relative, and you were just like, you know, I'm not like some big podcasting but like, I feel like if you were to speak to the general population, they'd be like, the only name they would know is like Joe Rogan. It's so interestingly we really put this on ourselves of like, I'm not as good as these other people that I know of, even though like nobody else knows about it. And in reality, so much of coaching is being ahead of the people that you are coaching. I think it's slippery slope because then people would be like, well, you just have to be like one step ahead. No, you need to be like a hundred steps ahead of the people that you're actually coaching. But that experience that you get along the way, I think that's something that has just always been a part of something I like doing and learning something and then sharing it with other people and carrying that skill set just across domains where first it was coaching in sport and then coaching with business. But for me, it's always been super important that I can get the results and I can get the results for other people. I see a lot of in the online business space where people didn't have business success until they started coaching online business and it's kind of like mL emy, right, it's like, but actually, you never built a successful fitness business. You're just coaching other people. So for me, you know, I think I've always felt like that with sport as well, Like I wanted always one of my coach to have been successful themselves and understand what it's like to be in that position. I know there's some circumstances where like the coach wasn't that good, but they're like good at coaching. I get it. But for me, it's really valuable to have the coach that has that experience. And that was what it was for my journey of That's why I said I was ready to bring it public facing if you will. It was kind of like before then. I live in SoCal, so before then, it was very much like in and out, you know, animal style off the menu, where people would come and ask me and I was like, okay, cool, I can help you out with this. I can just share what I know. I'm not like this business girl, but I can show you what share what I did, because that's what they were asking, like what did you do? And I'm like I know that. And then after accumulating enough success stories, I think it's really important that we get objective and we trust the data. Like if you get a lot of success stories, you do know that thing. If you're helping people do this thing, you do know that thing and believe that. And then by that time I had enough people that I had helped and I was like, I can do this and I can help people with this, and I want to bring it to the forefront. But it did take some time. Yeah, I love that, Like we need to get objective. I've always said, like, I won't say i'm something unless like three people tell me that, Like, so like a bunch of people told me I'm a good teacher. Before that, I would have never said I'm a good teacher. I don't know if I'm a good teacher. I really like that. I respect that so much. I you know, I talked about it on Instagram about I think one of the simplest marketing approaches is be the best at what you do. And one of the comments I get on that a lot just like, well, how will you know if you're the best, And I'm like, people will tell you. They'll tell you that you're good at this thing. They're like, wow, that really helped me. It's really good at that then, you know, which I think goes back to kind of how you started your journey, right is people will tell you if you share, right, like, you need to share what you know and help people that way. I love that you bring that up because it's definitely. I think as creators maybe sometimes we take it for granted that because sometimes it can come easy to like, Okay, do this thing, I make this thing. But you know it's called opening a vulnerability that you do have to initiate that and put stuff out there for people to have something to say about it, for people to have something to initiate a conversation with you, for people to get results from so they can say thank you and your Veals company. Yeah, absolutely, And I mean you come with an open mind, right, You're going to learn something too. I've I learned like via a YouTube video that I made that I was using not it wasn't this Mike. It was a different mic and it was a side of Jass Mike. So like we're both using the Shore SM eris and the MB seven or the SM seven B. I just switched the pop filtered out because the shorter one it was like the plosives were messed up. So we're both using front address microphones, right, This microphone I had was a side address and I was using it as a front address and like this comment was like are you using it wrong on purpose? And I'm like, well no, Like that was like the most YouTube comment, right, and then did they say called him doctor and they're calling me a doctor. And I'm like, oh, doctor, Mike, I got it all right. And so after like I got annoyed, I was like, I am using this micro wrong way. Alright, cool. I like that opening of vulnerability loop. And I wanna touch on something else you said, like being ahead of the people you're coaching, but not like one step. I really like that a lot. My friend Chris Lama has something called the bridge framework, where when you're offering somebody a product or a service or coaching, he equates it to trying to cross the bridge, right, And most people don't just want to cross the bridge, they want to get to what's on the other side of the bridge. So if I'm mangling this framework and bringing it into our example, when you start coaching people, you should at least be across the bridge, right. You shouldn't be halfway across the bridge to be like, hey, I can show you how to cross this bridge. I'm actively crossing the bridge, yes, before you...

...both fell down, because you know you do see it all the time, right, I'm a recovering WordPress developer, as I told you, right, And I've seen like a lot of plug in developers like strike it big, like with one plug in, like right place, right time, and then they like instantly become a business coach, but like they know only their situation and they're like, well, yeah, so I just made this plug in and people bought it. And I'm like, so you made the plug in right when people needed it, which is I think what another reason I was so hesitant right because I was like, well, I was I lucky, and then I like did it again and I'm like, well, you know, there you go. I like that you have that number. That's my subjective number of like three people have said it. That's I like that because people are like how many, and its like realistically more than one because it might be your mom. Yeah exactly. But like if you've taught like five people and four of them are like you're super great at it, right, that's like hit rate. Believe the information. I believe, Dave the data. I love it. So again, one of the things that really resonated with me from your talk was again being more of you, and I think part of that is is something we mentioned earlier, which is this values based marketing. Can you talk a little bit about that for some context, I try to keep my personal views on a lot of things close to the chest, especially because like I don't know, I feel like I'm always gonna get like dragged on Twitter. It's like my biggest fear, Joe said something. But the truth is like I don't think my views are very controversial. But anyway, can you talk a little bit about values based marketing and how you can really bring more of yourself to your business that way? Totally? I love this question. We were kind of chatting a little bit about before we started recording. I think that it's becoming, at least in my space, in you know, my online business coaching world, it's becoming more of something that's talked about a lot more. And to me, it also seems very common sense, like, yes, you should be leading with your values and making sure that you're instilling your values not to be confused with your opinions on things and everything that you do. And I think it's really important, especially today, Joe, because we have so much information being thrown at us, and so for people that are trying to find their voice. Yeah, we start off by imitation. Absolutely, that's human nature or nothing wrong with that, but we have so many things being thrown us and so many coaches and gurus being like, do it this way, do this, do this, do this for success, so many guides across the bridge. Super important. You always have your own north star that you lead with that and you can always come back to that, and it's what do you value and what are your values? What are the things that are important to you. I think that it's very easy to kind of be pulled in other directions and influence in other directions. And we look at Instagram, look at TikTok, and I don't want to get on a soapbox about it. But as a creator, my favorite thing is creativity and seeing it. And as a human I'd love creativity how much before the hobbies and things that people are passionate about. I love that it's different for everyone. I love that you love Star Wars and Disney. I don't love it. I don't need to. I love that difference. And I think that I see with social media that there's like a maginizing of people of like do this trend and everyone looks the same, and everyone's just being the same the way that we Don'tmost think we can avoid that, but I think the end to do it to that is that people identify and stick to their values no matter what, and it's gonna be different for everybody. Obviously I should be subjective and independent, but I'm not sure if people do that enough early on in their career. Do a lot of business coaching for Instagram, and people are really focused on like but do hashtags matter? And one of the first things that we're working on is write out what your values are, because those are the things that you always have to come back to, and those are going to be your anchors and the content you create around it, and the way that you show up is going to be founded in this, and that is how you're ultimately going to attract your people. Alright. I met a good friend named Sarah Sudds and I met up with her and she said to me, once we don't attract what we want, we attract what we are. Totally flip that around. We don't attract what we want, we attract what we are and really resonated with me and to when you lead with your values and your established this is what I'm about, you will attract that audience that values the same thing. And so I think that becomes an integral part of of marketing and an integral part of sustainability and longevity, irrespective of what fueled you're in. This episode is brought to you by learned Dash. Look, I've been making courses for a long time. I've taught at the college level, and I've created curriculums for several different organizations, including You to Me, Sessions College, and LinkedIn Learning. When I create my own courses, there's no better option than learned Dash. Learned Dash combined cutting edge e learning tools with WordPress. They're trusted to power learning programs for major universities, small to mid sized companies, startups, and creators worldwide. What makes learned ash so great is it was created by and is run by people who deeply understand online learning and add features that are truly helpful...

...for independent course creators. I love the user experience, and now you can import Vimeo and YouTube playlists and have a course created automatically in seconds. I trust learned Dash to run my courses in membership, and you should too. Learn more at how I built dot it Slash learned Dash. There are two things here I want to repeat because I think they're really important. Values not to be confused with your opinions. Right, Your opinions are probably based on your values. But like I don't need to tell you like what politicians I love to do, like value based marketing, Right, the answer is none of them. And then you mentioned people get caught up in the details. Do hashtags matter? I'm like, really, I got to remind myself not to be that way when I start a project, right, because it's a lot easier for me to think about implementation. Right, that's a concrete thing. Values are not really a concrete thing. I guess they can be. Right. In the pre show, I was telling you how I after my full time job and started a business because I had a three month old at home and I wanted to spend time with my family when I could, so, like, one of the values for me is having a flexible job so that I can be there for my family, which was really important during the pandemic. My wife's a nurse and we have three children. Now, yeah, we we have a lot of kids by today's standards. We just thought it would be nice to like book end the pandemic, you know, like one was born towards the beginning, one was born towards the end, it's like some nice symmetry there, But that value was really important because my wife was going to work and my kids were home from school and daycare, and I was able to take the time I needed because I built a business around that that right there at the launch, every sustainability, the fulfillment, the happiness around there. And I agree that values feel less tangible than this thing that you can check off on. The cool part is you can totally write out your values. And a good friend of mine, Lord Gane, she's a great saying values are verbs. And that's what I encourage the people I'm working with, is that you can have these values, are you living them? Are you enacting them? Because it's one thing to say I have this value which is slightly different than I value this thing, but close enough that will leave it if we flip it then or we take a step further and we say values are verbs, So how are you living that out? And then to see you doing that and be're like, yeah, and that's why I left my job because I value family time and I value relationships and what does that look like in action? That looks like me making a decision and prioritizing these things, and that speaks volumes might do. That speaks thank you. I appreciate that. And it feels a little bit counterculture, right because I think like maybe less now, like post pandemic, right, But I think a lot of people started business to make money. Before I was thirty, I said, I don't care where I'm at with my relationship with family, with whatever. I just want to be a millionaire by the time i'm thirty. Now that i'm thirty six, I'm like, God, what a dumb kid I was. I'm like way happier now with like a chaos house of three kids five and under and it's just like so much fun and like my kids are goofballs. I think a lot of people might want to start a business to make a lot of money, and that's kind of what we're told, right, build a big business, have an agency, make your first higher that part. I think you nailed it. It's what we're told, right. So I have a good friend Jill, my business partner as well, and selling drives her and her business is her passion and she loves doing launches and I'm like, that's not for me. Well, when you identify the things that you value. You're cool then and you're like, yeah, I actually really really value this in the sense that that someone told me or not that the books told me. It's that I want to be doing it. Whereas if you only look at Okay, well someone on Instagram told me to do it or the business coach told me to do it, I just heard it. I just feel this way but believed this, but I never questioned it, and I never established my own values. Then suddenly you find yourself leading a life that you're like, but I'm not happy, and maybe I made money, but I'm really unfulfilled. These are such good points. Thank you. I mean, it's that's all I feel like. I don't usually make this point on this, but you're like really bringing them out, and like what you're saying, it's something that I've been thinking about a lot lately, right, I mean, I read like Paul Jarvis's book A Company of One. I don't know if you've read that. It's really good. It's like about how everyone tells you to hire and build as big a business as possible so you can remove yourself from it. But like I was explaining to my brother in law yesterday, right, he asked me, so, are you like going to hire any employees, And I'm like, na, man, It's just like I built this business so I could help people make money podcasting or whatever I was doing before, like help people build websites. My business is very mean centric and I'm cool with that, dude. This is something that you know, I do business coaching and but I also have we call it a mental mind. Little with that woman till I was just speaking about capital at thirty is pretty ideal I have women is pretty ideal that all online business owners. And it's very cool to run this with someone...

...who we have very similar values, very similar values. We have slightly different things that we value, right, So there's like a little bits of different with that. And because of that, we attract a little bit of a mixed audience where some people are all about business, grow the business, and I am all about those your best life. And so I think that the people that are in the mental mind that we run get the best of both worlds because they get to decide do I want to be pushing and growing and and doing this. Although you know, Jill's business is fairly lean, she has a handful of people that don't work underneath her, but I'm very much like I like being in the middle of the business. Jill is in the middle of her business as well, but I like being in that and I like keeping it very lean and not having a massive team. Part of that is because I really value safety, and for me, safety comes when I can pivot and adjust things and I don't have a massive bill every month of employees, that's the number one thing, right So if you're online, you don't have overhead. So if you're brick and mortar, that's usually your number one overhead and then after that or close to that is going to be employees do not have that when worried about that is a big thing for safety for me and we definitely I love to use that word counterculture. That's definitely in its counterculture of keep your business lean, let it be you like do a lot of the things it's almost like you get shamed for, Like you edit your own videos, oh my god, And it's like, because I love doing that. I don't ad my podcast anymore. But leaning into the things that you enjoy and they fulfill you, there's nothing wrong with that. Definitely can check out that book because I'm all about that confirmation by likewise I bought that book knowing i'd agree with it. But yeah, absolutely, like I don't edit this podcast, thank you, Joel, But I like hate editing my podcast, like I really like, I'm just like I feel like I think that's probably the most I'm like Johnny Depp, and I don't like watching or listening to anything after I've done it, right, that's the most I'll ever be like Johnny Depp. But yeah, when it's done, stide, I made it. I was there when I created it, and so like, I'd rather somebody do the editing I was do. I feel the exact same way people like, do you listen to your podcast after the ones that you've been on, And I'm like, no, what's done is so I will listen to the ones that I guessed it on because I want to make sure I didn't like promise something and forgot about it, Like what was that you are? L I gotta make it like right now? So good something that can I just interject real quick because I wrote it down something you said earlier that I did an episode about it and I do something email out about it and how when you started that you were like I wouldn't make a lot of money. I think that it's important that we also want established our values and to we start recognizing what phase or what season. I wan't say phase, that's that sounds very prejortive, what season of life we're in. I think that we can divide things into three seasons of your expand seasons, your experience seasons, and your pivoting seasons. And most people are in one of those. And when you're in your twinies, for most part, you are especially a business oring to your creator, you're creative. There's often times a big expand period of life, a big expand season, and you're like, I want to make money, I want to do more things. And then suddenly you're just like I want to just enjoy what I've built, or I just want to be with my family. And we're in that experienced phase of life, experienced season of life. And then COVID hits for many people, and it put them in a pivot, and not necessarily a forced pivot, because that's real too, but it was a great pause and people got to look at their values and the things they valued and they were like, wait a Bennett, this ain't it. We pivoting and then you see people building new careers and things like that, and so I think it's also when people are looking at creating these value based businesses and doing values based marketing. It's self awareness is paramount there too, and identifying where you're at and being okay, so interesting you mentioned that I earlier, depending on when this episode comes out, but in an earlier episode, I had Dr Sherry Walling on the show, and she has a book called Touching to World, A Guide for Finding Hope in the Landscape of Loss, where we talk a little bit about that and the Great Resignation and how the Great Pause like made people reevaluate. Now, she experienced considerable grief during the pandemic, but um, this book kind of came out of that, and so hearing you kind of reiterate and reinforce some of that is really cool, also really important. I think like understanding that there's like a pivot season of your life, right because I'm there now. I was a word Press developer for almost twenty years. Word Press came out in two thousand three, and I started using it in two thousand four. Okay, I was there very early and it was great, and I love it and like making websites ach you like flexboth sides of your brain. And now I'm like pivoting into like helping people launch podcasts, helping people make money with their podcasts. And I'm like, I'm wondering, am I making the right decision? How many people are actually do this this many times in their lives? Right? Because my old man, he's a boomer, I guess, and he not Pejorityle is a baby boomer. He's seventy years old, and he was at Verizon formerly nine X, formerly Belle Atlantic,...

...formerly whatever, like basically his whole life. And I've like changed jobs every two years, and then I went out on my own, and now halfway not halfway, but five six years into my full time self employment as an adult, I'm like totally changing my audience and my offering. And I just wonder if that was I just had a discussion. I don't think who I was even talking about this. It sounds like, yes, you are obviously related to your dad, and he raised you and instilled a lot of values and things like that, but also you're two very different people, and in what I do and who I'm exposed to, one of the things that I've noticed is that we as entrepreneurs oftentimes forget that we are a very small subset of everybody, and we built different right what other people consider safe, we consider risky. Like to me, working for somebody else sounds incredibly risky. And I happened in COVID and people got furload and I was like, what you have no money now? Like what happens? Like what you just this? Is it incredibly risky to me? Whereas people that prefer that set paycheck may look at what we do and are like, are you kidding? You have seasonality in your business and sometimes like what you made before is not what you make now, and it's changes, like what. So when I talked to other entrepreneurs and other coaches, and I remember who it was we were talking in this they're largely in the fitness space, and they were talking about hiring coaches and that they didn't want to hire coaches that were multi passionate because those people tend to adabble and leave. And I was like, I think it's very small subset of people. We tend to think that it's so many people, but I do believe that so many, so, so so many people in the majority of people want a simple life, they want a set life. They want to you know, have a family and live in this kind of house, and I think there's nothing wrong with that, and they want to be able to provide an income and they get so much out of that and they value that and sometimes they don't have any you know, other options. But I think that also a lot of people do really enjoy that. And the flip side is people like us that don't enjoy that and would not thrive in that and do way better leaning into these things. And it's not like yours are willy nilly, right, It's not like you're like and now I'm going to be a seamstress or something like that. Like, it's so you're you're within your wheelhouse, within your skill set. Your audience may pivot, but it's actually poppy tangential more than anything else, because if people have a website, they're kind of online, and then they're online, they're realizing the value of marketing on different kinds of platforms and different kinds of medium So it's not like some big switch. But I love this discussion because it does come up a lot for me with people that I connect with on instagrams like that and them feeling a bit mothered because at some of the people around them are different and they're like, but they want a traditional job and I don't, And what does that mean? Making the wrong decision? And like to my dad's credit, like he didn't get it, but like he supported me. He like made like the first investment, and like it really means a lot to get the support of my parents. My wife, like she was on when I started my business, Like she was on maternity leave, so like I was the only income. And I'm like, I'm gonna leave this secure job because I'm like not happy. How do you feel about that? She goes, you need to leave this job because you're not happy, and I'm like, yes, they got chills, Joe. That's what I want for people. They wanted themselves. I wanted for them. But that that right there, just you can hear. I mean, it's great. I love this podcast is video because I can see you. That's only one of my favorite things coming out of Zoom. And I can see you and you can feel and see the richness of that and how it lights you up and what that means, and you will work a million times harder to make it work. Then if you were at that other gig, and yes, there are times we've all done it. We go, ok I just gotta make this money, and like bite the bullet and like, okay, do it. But when we have those options presented and we're like no, I have the ability to to leave, and you have people that believe in you. Nothing like it, and you know your work till the end of time to make that same work, that's awesome. This episode is brought to you by store Builder from Nexus. When it comes to setting up an e commerce site, you have a choice between easy but limited or a limitless platform that you need to manage yourself until now. Store Builder is e commerce made easy for everybody. It saves you time and delivers a storefront that lets you get to selling. As someone who set up multiple e commerce sites, I can tell you that store Builder has been a much easier experience than anything else. Answer a few questions, add your content, and sell. Store Builder was created and is supported by e commerce experts at Nexus. Get the speed, security and support you need when you need it. Are you ready to launch your perfect online store? Head over to how I built dot it slash store Builder for a special offer. That's how I built dot it slash store builder.

Well, as usual, this got deeper than I expected it to get good stuff. Yeah, this is the good stuff. This is like this show pivoted from talking to like developers about how they developed something to like the bigger picture stuff like this, and since then it's gotten a lot deeper. It's really rich and it's really important because like when I first went out on my own, like my friends, my brother's friends. Mom, I guess it was a mutual friend but she was like, when's Joe going to get a real job. And my brother Phil, God bless him. He was like, Joe makes this much money and your son is waiting tables, Like who has the real job? And like if you want to wait tables, it's great. If you're good at it, you can make a lot of money. But like don't have your mom and saying like my job is not a real job. So I just I appreciate that. My brother like I'm like book smart, my brother phils like street smart, hunger. I'm the oldest of four boys. Yeah, so our house was falling apart by the time we all grew up less four boys, and you were like yeah, I warn't a family. Yeah. I actually my wife wanted like six kids in the beginning. I taked you down like three maybe four. So we're at three. We're good right now. Our Abby is like eight months old. So yeah, she's the best baby, Like she knew what preceded her, like my two olders, Like we're like bad at sleeping and eating like my son like as a week gag reflex or whatever. Yeah. So like she was like, look, I'm gonna be born on Christmas Eve and I'm just gonna be like the best Christmas gift I know, right, And so she's been like sleeping through the night for months, like she's going to be in a baby. Yeah. I mean I could keep talking to you all day. I want to be cognizant of your time, but I do want to touch on this mentor mind to thing again because I was looking at your website, you know the movement maestro, you have like Mafia on there. I'm a big giant New York Italian stereotype who's worked at like a barber shop and adele and in construction, and so I was like checking out your offerings, but I'd love for you to dig into this mentor mind a little bit. Because the things we talked about, you would think they are intuitive, right, But I think there are so many outside forces. I had a guy tell me like, if you want to have a successful business, you gotta wear a suit every day. And I'm like, this is the dumbest advice I've ever I'm nineteen, and I know how stupid this advice is. Like I was like, why do I need to wear a suit? Like I've like made websites in my boxer shorts or whatever that right there? Dude. I got that same talk as a physical therapist, and I was like, this is so down that I have to wear this fancy clothes. I ripped three pairs of pants as a physical therapist before. I was like, I'm not wearing these pants anymore. I can't be physical and do my job. I can't demonstrate a squat or lunge because I've split my pants. So I think this circles back to that values based marketing, and for people that are let's say, going to hire a coach, or they're going to look for advice or someone, the number one thing I tell be able to look for is alignment of values. If someone has the same kind of values, then the advice that they're gonna give you is going to be more relevant and more easily believable by you. Whereas I think people just look solely at an outcome. Okay, this person has a lot of money. They don't look at what's their lifestyle, like because maybe that person that you know, that guy that told you this, loves wearing suits and he loves he's that guy and he's like, I mean, you suit every day and I feel good. It's what are your values? I'm like, all right, that's cool. It's not for me, but that's cool. But people tend to just look at the outcome and be like I want that, and I'm not going to look at what I trade places with them. What are the things that this person values? Because we know that coach is going to teach you what they know. They're gonna teach you about how they got across the bridge. That's it, And hopefully they're not poo pooing other approaches like that's that's the worst to me, and they're like, oh, that's the worse. That's the don't do that, don't do that. Hopefully they're just saying this is what I do this is how I got across. This is what I can teach you. The mental mind that Jill and I run. Jill has been in the online business. I think she's like you, like she convent it online business. You invented WordPress, y'all bow some O g s. But in the beginning of time. So she's been doing this for years, coming out of the fitness space, so nutrition, fitness competitor, things like that personal training that realm. I came out of the physical therapy. We so obviously there's a lot of overlap. She very much loved the strategy. She very much loves the numbers. She very much loved that side of things, but us having the same value. She understands having integrity, showing up with integrity, not just using clever marketing tactics and scarcity in urgency and just making sales. She is a personal brand, right Jill fit on Instagram, So she has a personal brand as well, and understands like putting yourself in the center of this thing and building a brand around that and truly getting results for people. She values expertise, so we have the same value alignment in terms of integrity, in terms of expertise, in terms of action taking, whereas the things that we I don't want to say different, but where our strengths...

...complement each other. She's so much about the strategy, and I am so much about the brand building, about the community building, about the best life building, the things that on the other side of that more of I would say, the attraction kind of marketing side of things right where she's like, here's the strategy and the implementation, and I'm like, here's how you get the eyes, here's how you build the trust. I will show you that she knows how to do it. She's done it for years. But that's stuff that I really like to go deep with and really like to dig into. So then when people, you know, run this center, mind it's six months long for female intermediate plus online business owners. We both have decent sized audiences, so they're coming from our current audiences and it's basically we created an offer that didn't exist on our platforms. So we have people that are waiting for something they're like, oh right, cool, this does make sense. And for folks that are kind of like I wanted to work with Jill but it was a little bit nervous, or people that wanted to work with me, but her audience. Now they have the two of us and we run two live events with it. We do one on one coaching calls, we do group calls. So it's run in that regard traditional like we see like masterminds run. But I am very much, very adamant on the one on one calls. I think that one thing we do see when we get into mastermind territory and Mental Mind whatever territory is that oftentimes the group model is implemented because it's most beneficial for the person leading the group, not because it's most beneficial for the people in the group. And so we have that element so that people can have that HI think and once ideas off each other. People do like that, But I'm very adamant on Also, we're going to give you the one on one attention because that's what you're paying for, and that's how we can look to guarantee the results that they want that we can actually get. I love that. A couple of things to take away here. So you built these big audiences and then created an offer for them, right, that's like the mistake I've made so many times that I'm like finally learning, Like right now, as we speak in this pivot is like I can make as many products as I want. I can develop is I'm very good at developing good courses. But like if nobody wants that or wants to learn it from me, like I'm just kind of wasting my time. It is incredible for so many reasons to hear you say that. One that you're willing to acknowledge your good at something. People haven't really have time acknowledging that. They're just like they feel bad saying it. You can't get it out, but too that order of operations there, and you're acknowledging that actually the creation part for the majority of us is actually the easy part. Like you can create a zillion things. It's attracting the eyes, it's building the trust, it's listening to what people want and then building that. That's the hard part. And so if you've done that and you're like, I have the on side of trust, that's actually pretty easy. After that, you just build the things and have fun to Yeah. Absolutely, I have a friend will call them straw man. I feel like they quote unquote pivot all the time because they don't want to do the thing that they're constantly told they have to do, like, oh, I want to do this thing, but I don't want to do X. I just want to do why. And I'm like, all right, well this is not the business for you then, right, I think recognizing that too. Like again, part of my pivot was that I got really tired of doing web design work for clients. I was training like hours for dollars, right, and I didn't want to do that as much anymore. And I was really passionate about podcasting. I think it's like thinking about that stuff, thinking about your values, like you said, like, I feel like this conversation has me thinking a lot more. I hope it has other people who are listening thinking, because I mean, like the books start with why is cited all the time for everything forever and but like forever and ever, and that title is fine. I read the book. It was great, but like, you don't need to read the book. You just need that one sentence there you go. Yeah, no offense to Simon sinec. But like, just ask yourself why you're doing something and let that. I think you make another really good point, Joe in if we tie it back into what you had said earlier of growth, right, and so if I was gonna keep with a literation. I would say that I have my three phases of life or three seasons of life being expand experience, and I think that the one would actually be evolved. We call it pivot, but I think it's an evolution because sometimes what happens is, and I've seen in my own business because Jill's ahead of main business and some of the things that she does, I'm like, I couldn't do that, or at least I remember like thinking about that like a year or two ago and being like, I couldn't do that. I don't want to do that. And then fast forward two years, however, many more clients, however, many more products, services, offers, and something You're like, m I think I could do that. Right Where in the beginning, when I first said of my podcast, I was like, I love editing it and I want to do this, and then under it's the episodes, and I was like, I want to do this no more? How good? Alright? So I think that exactly what you said. Where if we're I don't say constantly but continuously evaluating our what we value because that can change to over time and being like what do I value? Why am I doing this, like the person that you said that keeps changing and pivoting. Oftentimes it's...

...because they actually value something else. Like if I was to be like, well, why do they keep doing that, it sounds like they value something don't do these things because it's not what I value. Ultimately, I'm not gonna give me what I want. Whereas if you actually sit and you're like one of my values with the things that I value, and understand that this can evolve and we don't fix ourselves and be like, well, I'll never think that, because it's been my experience that over time you evolved and you're like, actually, those things that I was holding so tight, I'm okay outsourcing them or I'm okay doing something a little bit differently because I've evolved. So it's a really really good point that you bring. Thank you. Honestly, I think for my friends saw me, and the solution to their problem is they want to do the work and never deal with any of the clients. And I'm like, that sounds like a full time job, like working for somebody else, and that's cool. I love that you bring it up. We are in this entrepreneurial renaissance, let's call it. And I think that people that like regular job traditional jobs are feeling some kind of way and feeling some of that should. I have clients like that, and I've had this conversation where I'm just like, you would be best served to find someone really dope to work for. And that does exist. I know we hear horror stories about all these other things, but go read some Seth god In and understand like their leverage that you have and coming out of the great resignation and business is changing, and understand, especially if you're older, like you bring a lot to the table and the experience that you bring and the things that you can say, Okay, I can do this, and I can bring this to the table on like what if you do it this way and create that position that you want within the environment that really truly serves you. I see people and they're trying to make that entrepreneurial thing work, and I'm like, you like certainty too much. And when I say certainty, sometimes people are thinking of a paycheck. That's part of it. Certainty of an outcome. Right, So you know, in the online space, just because you took all these hours to build a course doesn't mean people are going to buy it. Is because you all this effort into marketing doesn't mean people are going to buy it. But people that come from a world of certainty think I did this input, I should have this output, and when that doesn't happen, even with an Instagram post, right, Like, ILL spent an hour editing things, so I really enjoy it, and I'm like, look at this little new feature on adobbe Okay, cool. No one else cares about it, but I like it. I spent all this time, and if I was to go into that being like, Okay, I put in this effort, this input, I expect this output, You're gonna be sadly mistaken and grossly disappointed at the end of that. And for people that need that certainty, they're probably better off in a different position, and there's nothing wrong with it. Steal a term from I think the Focused podcast, like if you like to crank widgets, like great, Like that's awesome, and then you could spend your mental energy exactly the way you want to. I love experimenting and being self employed. Lets me do that a lot more. It's the best life out their best life building, leaning into the strengths and the things that you value absolutely well in build something more. As long as we still have time and build something more. We are going to talk about our own personal hobbies. If you're a long time listener, you probably know mine, but we don't know Shanty's, so we'll learn a little bit. But Maestro, this was such a great conversation. If people want to learn more about you, where can they find you? Instagram is my platform or choice, always the easiest. I'm the movement maestro over there, m A E. S. T r Oh. I know my show can be a little tough to spell. If you don't like Instagram, that's okay. My website is the exact same, the movement Micero. You can check things out there and connect with me through that. D m s are always the easiest. I get back to them really quickly. Email I'm I'm gonna lie very sewesome. Well, I will link to that and everything we talked about, the Bridge framework a company of one even start with why I link that in the show notes too, which you can find over at how I Built Slash two eight five. And folks, this is a treat because you're getting a one two punch of craft and commerce from Shante this week and then from Tara Chase next week. So we just set you up for like values based marketing, think about what you what is important to you. Next week, Kara is going to tell us why that's even more important, So definitely stick around for next time. Hopefully this teaser works, but Chante, thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate it. Joe, this is my pleasure. Thank you awesome, and thank you to this week's sponsors, Nexus and Learned Dash. Thank you for listening, and until next time, get out there and build something Good People, Cool Things that's produced in Austin, Texas. If you were a fan of this episode, go ahead and hit that follow button that helps more people here the show. You can send me a message Joey at Good People, Cool Things dot com. Thank you to all of the guests who have been on Good People, Cool Things and check out all the old episodes via Good People, Cool Things dot com.

As always, thank you for listening and have a wonderful day. M.

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