Good People, Cool Things
Good People, Cool Things

Episode 132 · 2 months ago

132: Running Marathons and Cancer Journeys with David Richman

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Over the past 15 years, David Richman has run more than 50 triathlons, ran four marathons back-to-back, and took a solo 5,000-mile bike ride around the country. 

That bike ride is also a key part of his latest book Cycle of Lives, which explores 15 different emotional journeys of people who have experienced cancer. And 100% of the book's proceeds will be donated to nonprofits focusing on cancer research. 

We're chatting about those different journeys, how you can set your own goals for personal growth, the most (and least) bike-friendly cities, and some of the best cooking methods out there.

Twelve years ago this month, I ran my first and only ever marathon. It was the quantities marathon western Illinois Eastern Iowa. We ran across some sort of government island that people aren't normally allowed on. I was too tired, though, to appreciate this, because I was like mile thirteen or fourteen and I was kind of struggling with it. I remember a few different things. I had to go to the bathroom at one points. The quick pit stop wasn't anything too wild, but I did loose track of my pacer who I had been staying with, but I think I outpaced him and then that ended up hurting me in the long run because again, I had never done a marathon before and I thought, Hey, I could go faster than this. Silly me thinking I was smarter than someone who's done this probably twenty or thirty times in their life. I also remember researching my marathon arena, the field, what I would be running on quantities marathon. From everything I could find, it was hilly. The first three or four miles. You know, you had a couple of inclines, you had a couple of ridges that you'd have to climb over. Outside of that, nothing to worry about. So imagine my surprise when I'm turning onto the start of mile eleven. I'm going straight, I'm making a left turn and I look up and there's just a giant incline, a huge hill. It's a street, but it's like San Francisco level of just a horrible steep angle, probably like forty degree angle or something that I just didn't want to do. I didn't want to deal with. I would hate to deal with it had I not just run ten miles. But here I was and there was a volunteer on the side of the road and that poor kid. They didn't design the race, and yet I was just like you said no more hills. You said no more hills. I screamed it at him, saying hey, there's no more hills. I was promised that these hills would be done by mile far. They weren't. I made it up the hill. Actually ran the first fifteen miles of this race, aside from the little bathroom break where I was standing, because you know that's you go to the bathroom. But outside of that I ran the entire first half of the marathon. So that's my advice to people who are like I want to run a half marathon, I say train like you're running a full marathon and then you will be able to run a half marathon very easily. Then you'll hit a wall if you're running a full marathon, at least if you're like me, you'll hit a wall and it will be pretty terrible. But you'll make some friends along the way and that's really all you can ask for is having a great time. You've got people cheering you on, you've got signs, even if you don't know them, they're cheering you on because they came out to support their group of friends or their family. But then you see other people running and it's like, you know what, I'm going to support you too, because it's a very supportive environment. It's pretty wonderful and my guest today knows that maybe better than just about anyone. David Richmond is a runner who's done hundreds of ultra marathons, regular marathons, which saying regular like it's not a crazy accomplishment. It's pretty wild to me. He's in all different sorts of runs and he didn't start running as an...

...adult until it was thirty eight years old. We're going to talk about that in this episode and how it was the lowest point of his life when he kind of decided, you know what, I'm making a change, I'm going to start running, and how he's been able to accomplish these different goals along the way. David is also the author of the book cycle of lives, which looks at fifteen different stories from people who have been impacted by cancer and how they have made it through their journey from learning about cancer, whether it was themselves being diagnosed with it or a loved one. David Chats with them about their journey and it's a very impactful and powerful book and all of the proceeds get donated to cancer organizations who are doing research and looking for ways to cure cancer, because f cancer. If you'd like to get in touch with the show, you can reach out via facebook, twitter or Instagram at GPCT podcast. But let's not worry about any of that right now. Let's just get into our conversation with David. To kick off, can you go to your name and elevator pitch, but also the type of elevator that we're writing on? Jeez, well, we're riding on a glass elevator. Of course, super high. My Name is David Richmond. I'm an author, Um, and Um, businessman, Cook, Jeez, you name, and I do a lot of things. But yeah, I think my number one most important thing I do is is writing. Um, I also do a lot of endurance athletics. So, Um, I'm kind of always training and always prepping for the next big event. We'll get into some of that endurance discussion. I you might be proud of me or maybe disappointed. I don't know, but I went for a run today. Um, perhaps inspired by our conversation. I was like, I'm not. I used to run a lot more. I did run one marathon back in the day and have kind of fallen off in pandemic times. But I got out this morning it was under eighty degrees in Austin, so that's that's basically a cold front out here. So it was very that is the culture, especially at this time of year. The last event that I did before the pandemic shut everything down was the Austin half marathon on a Valentine's weekend. Of It's a lovely time. Yeah, it's awesome. It was a beautiful run. I Love I love running in Austin. Man, I love it. It's nice. Yeah, it's a good it's a good city for that for sure. And you talks about how writing is perhaps the most important thing, Um, that you've been doing and you have a new book, cycle of lives, which features fifteen stories from people, and we'll we'll kind of get into the behind the scenes, I guess, of the book coming together. But was this a story that because obviously the impetus of it's something that's affected you personally, of knowing someone who was who had cancer and passed away from cancer, and did you know that this book that you wanted to feature other stories, or was it something that kind of built up over time you were talking to people and it's like, wait a minute, there's there's some good stuff here. Um, more...

...the latter. So, Um, I had already written books and I was working on some fiction books and other things and then, all of a sudden, Um, when my sister was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. H I kind of noticed that people were really good at dealing with the tasks related to their cancer. So how do I get to the Chemo Chair and how do I get my kids watched and how do I sleep better and eat better? And like they could wrap their brains around the tasks of it. But when it came to the emotional side, like whoever I talked to, it didn't matter if it was doctors or nurses or volunteers or you know, uh, you know, the lab tex survivors, loved ones, family members, co workers, whatever. Like, when it came to the emotional side, Joey, they were like Um, yeah, no, I'd rather not talk about it, or you don't know what to say to people who are going through something like you could say, Hey, can I bring you a cast role, but you're not gonna say like, Jeez, what do you say to your kids when you come home feeling really that sick? Like it is it scary for you? I mean we don't really uh, entertain the hard conversations. And I noticed that over and over and over, and there was no matter who I spoke to, there was that recurring theme of Gosh, I don't know what to say or I don't know, I don't know what people could ever tell me when it came to the emotional side. So that's what drew me into this project, is to try to figure out why is that. And with the people that you ended up talking to, how did you, like, how did you go about finding these people and figuring out, like, Hey, you're gonna be in my book. So if you're gonna write like a book about music, right, and like you want to cover all genres of music, right, well, you go, okay, well, I'm gonna I gotta get different ages and different hypes and different types of music and, you know, all different forms and modes and instruments. It's the same thing with this. When it came to the emotional side of it, we all kind of have the same basic emotions. Are the same basic notes across all kinds of music. We all have the same basic emotions, but the emotions are very different depending on what kind of childhood traumas you had Um put it in relation to. Are you fearful, are you apprehensive? Are you angry? Some people have gratitude because it answers questions, getting some kind of diagnosis takes them out of the dark. Some people are affected differently if they had, let's say, deal with cancer their whole lives, as I got on collagist perhaps, or maybe someone that had cancer five different times there in their life, or somebody that had can't just the fear cancer sometimes can can really elicit a lot of trauma. So what I wanted to try to do is to take as much of a three sixty view as I could.

So Young, old one and done cancer, cancer their whole life. Um lost somebody to cancer. It just barely touched them. I wanted everything, all kinds of emotional responses. So I went looking for people that have really evocative, interesting, inspirational, kind of really moving stories where I could go. Oh, so when you say like people you know go through stuff, we never know what they're really going through, like this really uncovers that, like I pulled a blanket off and show you really what the heck is going on behind that thought of we never know what's going on. Now I imagine in the process of putting this together that you talk to people who had more interesting stories than others, and I assume the more interesting ones and the variety is what ended up making the book. And I'm I'm basing this off of this. was years ago. I shortly when I started my writing career, I responded to a fellow writer who was looking for examples of when they add a like a truly hellish client, like a nightmare client, and I reached out and I was like Hey, I think I might have something that fit and as soon as I started telling her about it, I could just hear in her voice. It was just a phone call, but like her her follow up question I could just hear was like this isn't gonna make my article. This is not like. I've talked to people who have had much worse things, which was good in one case, where I was like okay, at least I haven't dealt with like that much of a nightmare comparatively, but I just knew like she's not going to use me. I ended up reading the article. I was not in it. Not surprised. So were there people that were maybe I don't know if they were maybe expecting to be in the book, but like you talked with them and you were like, Oh, you know this, even if they had a good story, it was it just like didn't fit with the rest of the book. And and was there any kind of like disappointment out of that? Yeah, and that's a great question, because what what it was more along the lines of see, here's what I was doing right. So point a is when you encounter cancer. So it might be as a eighth grader on a field trip to the hospital. It might be as a six year old watching a parent diet cancer, it might be as an adult watching your friend go through cancer. But whenever you encounter cancer's Point Eight, point B is today, how do you navigate the emotional side of a to B in relation to all the TRAUMAS that you've had in your life before? So, for example, drug addiction, abuse, abandonment, making bad decisions, being dealt really bad handed life? So, because I wanted to say I could maybe not understand what it's like to go through cancer, maybe I cannot understand the emotions behind that, but I certainly can understand these other traumas. And if I understand those other traumas and how they might affect you when you're going through something acutely, then that gives me a better insight into how to connect with you. So what was more often the case was not that people weren't interesting or they didn't have inspiring or evocative stories, but that we weren't able to get to the heart of it. Because you know how sometimes when you say to somebody do you...

...go, Oh my God, like, tell me about when you grew up, and they start to tell you and they're like Bah, you know, it's not even that interesting. And you're sitting there going what are you talking about? That's like the most interesting ever, right, and they go, you know whatever, I don't want to talk about. So it was a matter of if I could get deep into people's story. Now some of the stories are really crazy, right. Like one of the ladies, her fear of cancer came from in the days leading up to the fall of Vietnam and she lived in Saigon in the days leading up to the fall of Vietnam her dad. As the world is crumbling around her and she's this little girl, is saying like everything bad that's going to happen is like a cancer, right, all this cancer around us, this cancer here, and you don't want to give me bad news because it's like giving me cancer. And she's this little girl. Right. They escape the last day of before Saigon falls and they come to America. She becomes a doctor above all odds or whatever. But in her whole life she's thinking, Oh my God, the fear of cancer. Cancer means the ruin of everything. Cancer means the worst thing that could ever happen. So she's always fearful of getting cancer. Now if you told me, like somebody walking down the street says, Hey, I'm pretty afraid of getting cancer, I might go, okay, that's kind of a boring story. But if you say to me, Hey, I'm kind of a fearful of getting cancer, why is that? Well, because I live my whole life afraid of getting cancer. Well, why is that? Because, you know what, when I was a kid. And then she goes on to tell you the story, you're like Whoa, you know, like that's a VOCA. That I can understand. So when she's when somebody says like yeah, I know, I'm cancered, I'm really, really scared of getting it and how traumatic that could be in relation to what she had to go through as a child. Imagine escaping Vietnam and the last day before psigon falls and under that kind of emotion of the rest, then I can go, oh, maybe I can gain something from that. So a lot of the people that I spoke to either I wasn't able to ask the right question or they weren't able to go there. Every once in a while the story wasn't terribly evocative, but most stories are if you can just get to what the heart of the issue is and I spoke to people for like a year, year and a half and and sometimes two years, Joey. And when you're getting that deep with people that are experiencing a cute, you know, primary or secondary trauma and in relation to other difficulties that they had in their life, then it starts really becoming interesting. So I think most of the stories are kind of jaw dropping, even though each one of them multiple times during my talks with them, were like yeah, this isn't interesting, nobody really cares because they're just living their life. You're saying, how, a year and a half, two years, with these people, are you still in touch with with all of them today? Not all of them. Um, in touch with uh, let's see, I'm close friends with a few. They've turned into very close friends. I am a friend with a few.

Um, a couple of passed away, Um, and and a few. This was their exercise and my exercise to do together and we would say hello to each other if we had the chance, but we're not. We're not in contact. Um. But the cool thing about the book joys is that all the stories are are not. Well, there's two stories that are anonymous because they needed to protect some people that were that we're in the in the stories with them, but but the thirteen and the fifteen are are you could go look up the names and where they work and who they are and what their kids are. It's all real. And so what's really cool is that none of it's contrived and everybody kind of knew going into it what the goal was. And so when you don't have anything to hide and you reveal everything, you just kind of like it's all good and you bond with each other on a different level. And so, you know, when you see somebody in their most vulnerable, you know, emotionally naked, you know, state, and you're just there with them, listening, hearing them and then eventually writing their story, it's hard to not be friends with them because we've connected in a way. I mean, like I said, when people said that my story wasn't that interesting, I can't tell you how many times each person said to me, AH, yeah, we can talk about that, but I've never really talked about that before with anyone. And so we got to bond on a different level. So it would be pretty crappy of me if we didn't, if we didn't remain friends. You know, yeah, absolutely, and it's part of the promotion for the book. You bike five thousand miles in six weeks, which I was trying to do some quick math in my head. I don't think and I would consider myself a fan of bike riding. My bike is currently in an undrivable condition because I need to get some new tires on it, but I'd say I like going for bike rids. I don't even think I've hit five thousand miles throughout the course of my life on my bike. So what did you learn along the way of doing that in a month and a half? Well, actually, I did bike through Austin from I went I got into Texas. I was I left l a San Diego, Arizona, New Mexico, came into Texas through post and then made my way over. I don't even remember every place I went, but then went to Dallas, then came down to Austin and then when I went up to Houston and then and then out, and I know obviously Austin has a huge biking history. Um. But yeah, I put in about like a hundred and twenty miles a day for forty one out of forty five days and it was pretty brutal in fact. Um, I in between each one of the fifteen stories is a little expose of that. It's the story of my bike ride, Um, the emotions behind losing my sister to cancer, and then some of the people I met along the way, and I met a lot of really cool people along the way. They have these poignant little stories. So I put the Trans issitions between each one of the...

...fifteen stories. Is One of those little expose s on the bike right. And two of the transitions actually about Texas. I had there once entitled days and days in Texas part one and the others days and days in Texas part two, because when you're trying to bike through Texas, man, it takes a long time. Oh, yes, yes, I have never attempted that, but even just driving through Texas, I'm just like we're still in Texas, the traffic for so long. Yeah, it's I think I put I probably put close to eight hundred or a thousand miles in Texas. Yeah, brave like it in the summer. I don't know. Having been then throughout all these different parts of the country. Let's put let's put some praise for either a city or a state that was Supervik er friendly. That would not be Philadelphia. Okay, it would, it would not be pretty much anywhere in Virginia. It would not be Houston. Screw Houston. Houston is the least bike friendly town in the history of the world. I mean they have zero bike Ling. But there are a lot of bike friendly place. You know. The problem is when I was going to a point eight to point b joy each day, I was mostly on the interstates. So, like there's not a lot of bike friendly space on an interstate. So I would say not really. But I did get off the interstate quite a bit for you know, twenty miles here or day there, UM, and I'd say Austin is a great bike town. Um. Certainly the Gulf coast is fantastic. Um, I really love that. And then once you get um kind of like north of Philadelphia, like D C up, it's it's really bike friendly. So Um, I mean it's all beautiful, right, but you've gotta be a little bit more aware when you're in Texas. You you gotta, especially in Houston. Man, you that was some scary days in Houston. Beyond bike and you also do a ton of running and and Marathon and long distance runs, Um triathlons, things like that. So, going way back to the very first run you ever did, do you remember it? I would assume so, but maybe maybe you stop keeping track at some fun but I and what was what was that like? Oh my God, I do remember it. It's it will never leave my brain because I was thirty eight years old. I had just left, Um, a violent marriage. Um, I was married to an abusive alcoholic and and had four year old twins and I was an overweight smoker and I was completely stressed out. It was like the lowest time in my life and I just one day, through a number of circumstances, forced my self and and and allowed myself to look...

...in the mirror and say, like, who are you and what are you doing, and what have you become and what do you want to become? And I just did this like major, like reflection time, and one of the things I said Joey was like, Dude, you're a fat smoker. What the Hell Are you doing? Right? So, the only way and I didn't want to fail at quitting smoking. I was a smoker for twenty years. I never tried to quit because I didn't never want to fail at it. You know, and then then then it would be okay to fail. So I never tried to quit. So when I did finally say okay, you got to care about the guy in the Mirror Um, the first thing I said was, well, then become a runner, because you can't run it smoke. I mean, I guess you could, but I mean logically you can't. So the very first so I remember that I was afraid that I was going to look like a big doric running. So I hired a run coach over the phone and I go, Hey, meet me at the I lived in Santa Calip point. Ye said, meet me at the sand amount of here and teach me how to run, and he goes yeah, I'd love to. So and we get there and he goes okay, we're gonna go on on on a couple of mile run. We're gonna start by going two minutes at a very slow jog so I can measure your gate, you know, see how you're doing. I said, Oh yeah, that sounds good. I could not make it to two minutes. Like a minute and a half in, I sat down on a planter and I was just like I'm done, like I couldn't even run two minutes. What the Hell is that? So, and I'm not saying run, I mean like jog, like slow jog, two minutes. That was the very first run that I ever did as an adult and I was just like wow, man, that is not right. So the next day I ran a little bit further, a little bit further, finally a you know, later that week I did a one mile run and then, uh by five, six weeks later identified K and then I did a half half iron man and then I did a full wronman and all of a sudden now like running became normal. Were you setting goals along the way and if so, what did that kind of look like, because I think, you know, just general fitness goals, I think are a lot of or improving fitness, I think is a goal for a lot of people, but I think it'd be easy to give up on if you don't have, you know, some sort of plan or progress that you're working towards. So what does that look like for you? Yeah, that's a great question. So, Um, in business, right, I was really pretty successful in business, but that's because, like, I had to achieve certain goals to get to where I needed to get to and those goals are usually laid out. You gotta head, you know, do what you can to reach those goals. Whatever. The same thing in life. Like you know, I don't think any I don't think I ever said any of my own goals. I just kind of did things and try to achieve them based on what I thought I needed to do or how other people might judge me or whatever. When it came to athletics, I went, Oh God, maybe I should set my own goals. And so how...

...low do I need to set him out? How do I need to set him? I don't know, but if, if, somebody, like I remember the six weeks in I did a five K and I told some people and they're like, dude, you're like a smoker, you can't run three miles, and I go well, I just did, and they go okay, well, but you couldn't do a ten K, and I'm like no, I think I can. So I did a ten K and then I said I'm gonna Start Doing triathlons and I remember doing a splint triathlon with a couple of buddies and then the day it ended, I go hey, I'm gonna sign up for an Olympic distance triathlon, which is basically, you know, twice the length of a short triathlon. And they looked at me like I was nuts and they go, you can't do something like that, like that's that's ridiculous, you gotta train for like six months. And I go no, I think I could do it in like a month, and so I did. And so I think with that, with athletics, is to learn that you only are, are limited by the amount of work you want to put in to achieve the goal. Now, if I said to Joey, Hey, go out and run your second marathon in a week and do it under four hours, it's not possible. You're gonna hurt yourself right. But but if you said, Hey, I want to run a marathon and I want to do it in three, three months, and I'd like to be able to do it at a at a pace that allows me to be around the four hour mark and I'd like to not walk, then I go, Oh, you could put in the work to be able to do that. Absolutely. If you said, hey, six months from now, I want to run a hundred mile race, I go yeah, as long as you're willing to put in the work, you could do that. So I think that the the cool thing about athletics for somebody who's just doing it for themselves, not doing it, you know, for a living or whatever else, but you're just doing it because you want to do it. Is the goal is never higher then if you're willing to put in the work. So if you're willing to put in the work, the goal is what if if I had the time, I would love, love, love, love, love, love to run across the country. I'm sure I could do it, but have to put in the training in order. I don't have the time to do that. And who has time to run across the country? But that would be really cool. So anybody, anybody, could do it if you if you set whatever goal, as long as you're willing to put in the training. So that that's the cool thing about it. Yeah, maybe forrest gum could Um plan a time for that. But yes, I wouldn't. One other thing that when when you were talking about the training, it took me back to when I was trying for a marathon. You know, you're running several times a week and you've got kind of shorter runs earlier on and then Saturday. For me it was like the long run of the week. So eventually you're getting pretty close to marathon length and I remember someone asked, you know, why do you run a certain amount? And for me it was because that's what a training program I found online set. I didn't really have the science behind it, but I liked my friends reason of if you ran a full marathon while you were training, you probably wouldn't run the rights because you've already and I was I was like that's pretty that's a good reason. I like it. But one of the things for especially for the long runs were, you know I'd be running ten fifty miles, one...

...of the motivations was I knew I'd give myself a little treat at the end of it. Of There was a frozen yogurt place near why went shout out to loves yogurt. They don't exist anymore, very devastating, but I would always get a strawberry frozen yogurt with reese's peanut buttercups sprinkled on top and it was a delightful way to kind of just, you know, get my breath back and everything and something that I would look forward to at the end of a long run. So do you have a post or even a pre run treat that you consistently have, or or do you like to mix it up, or do you not have anything? You just run? Now that's really it's such a great point because you made me think about the fact that that you know, when you when the reward is chosen for you, it might not motivate you. Like if somebody would say to you, Joey, you gotta DO X Y Z for the next three hours and then at the end of it, I'm gonna Give You a loves yogurt with you might be like no, it's it's like it's not worth it to me, like that's not a motivator for me. But the fact that that reward was a motivator for you, to put in that that is awesome. I mean, I love that concept because, Um, you know, it's like if I told you, Hey, uh, you know, I don't know, go walk on the ladder between two buildings for a million bucks, you might be like a hell now, I'm not doing that. But if I said, well, you could, you could have a lifetime uh of of Friday's off and and a lifetime supply of loves yogurt, you might be like, I'm walking across that ladder like nobig deal right. So it's really funny. So for for me, I think that Um, that the rewards are not a specific one, but I definitely don't find any guilt in rewarding myself after putting out a good effort, because I'm choosing to put out the effort and there where I should choose the reward. I got no problem with that. Math I love I love it, I like it. YEA, yeah, I'd much rather do something that's really difficult if I'm forcing myself to do it and I get to pay myself off the way I want to, then if somebody is telling me to do it and they're paying me off the way they think they should pay me off. I like it. I like it. Another question I always like to ask the question you wish you were asked more frequently, and you know this, having written multiple books, that one of the best ways to market the book you've just released is to write another book and then not come about. So what's your next book going to be about? Oh my gosh, so I just rewrote a companion piece that I have for for a book that's, UH, a guide book to to Your First Five K ten K or sprint triathlon, because I'm noticing that there still is so many people I've never done a five K, a ten K or sprint triathlon. They don't even know where to start. So that's like a seventy page companion piece for my first non industry specific book, which was winning in the middle of...

...the pack, Um, the cycle of lives book. We both know there's not a lot of money in books. But Um, but all the proceeds that come in on the cycle lives book, which is about the fifteen people and the bike ride and all that, all that goes to cancer charities and hospitals. So that's pretty cool. Uh, I have probably like four or five different Um fiction books that are in the works, so I'm hopeful that the next book I put out will be one of those. I am writing another book on expressive writing, though, so that actually might come out first. It's a nonfiction book on expressive writing, because I do expressive writing workshops and I do them in a way that's different than traditional expressive writing. So that might I might actually come out with that book first. I'm not sure yet. Well Spoken, like a true writer of multiple books going going at once, I'd like to say, yeah, for sure. All right, David, almost off the hook here, but we always like to wrap up with the top three and you mentioned at the top that in addition to being a writer, to participating in all these races, you're also a cook. So what are your top three methods of cooking? Oh my Gosh, you know, I've got a friend who is actually a DJ. He's coming over to the house in a couple of weeks to do a big like all night set and have fun enjoy his birthday with his wife and kid and friends and kids and stuff. And he said, hey, why don't we throw in a cooking competition too, like we'll do like a chopped or something like a cooking competition. And one of the things that I love about cookie is the way, different ways you can cook. So we have a smoker, we have a pizza oven, you've got a barbecue, you've got the regular oven, you got a suvie whatever. I really love cooking with a smoker, traditional smoker, so not one of those pellets and set it and walk away like you got to figure it out along the way. I love that. And I built a pizza oven, Um really gorgeous pizza oven and and so I like to use that to cook cast rolls, pizzas, breads, all that, desserts, everything. And then I love the Su Vi, you know, which is a cooking in a vacuum sealed bag with water and something's cooking an hour, something's cooking sixty hours and it's just it's unbelievable. One Way. So my three ways, the favorite ways to cook or with a smoker, with the pizza oven and with the SUV. I love it. And of course a follow up, because anytime there's a pizza mentioned it's a two parter. Do you have a go to for pizza toppings? And what is your stance on pineapple? That's a good second question. So my wife's favorite pizza is Pepperoni, pineapple and Hallapeno, and boy are people like they're in all either pineapples the best thing on pizza, or pineapple doesn't belong on pizza, right. That's why people think so. My take on pineapple is because it makes other people happy, I'll put it on there, but I'm not a massive fan myself. But Um, I don't have a favorite type of say you name it pear bree cheese and a Arugula or just the meat...

...lover's pizza or, you know, a pesto based pizza, with Carne Asada, you name it. I just love all different kinds of pizza. So I don't really have a go to except when I'm making pizzas. Never does anybody turn away a slice pepperoni. So it's a classic for a reason. I like it. Yeah, I'm I think I'm I'm in the pro I know you said people either love it or hate it, and I'm kind of in the middle. On Pineapple, on Pizza. I'll I'll enjoy it. Um, yeah, I'll enjoy it. Yeah, I'm not asking for it, but I'll eat it. I'd like it. I like it, Love, love, a good pizza connoisseur and equal opportunities for pizza topics over here. Yes, well, David, this was so much fun. I I mentioned it that it's been pouring rain outside, so I'm picturing running and that kind of element and it's just I'm sure you've done that many a time, where it's just the web or it's not your friend but you're powering through. Yeah, I prefer the hot weather running. So I live in Vegas. So like today it was one oh eight. I didn't run today, so I don't mind running in the heat. Um, running in water, rain and stuff is fun, but not not with lightning, because that's a little dangerous and it could lead to some bad blisters or whatever. But yeah, I think if you fall in love with running, it doesn't matter if it's hot, cold, windy, rainy, dry, desert mountains, doesn't matter. You'll you'll find a way to love it. I definitely love it. Still love it. Love it and if people want to learn more about you or check out any of your books that you've read, where can they find you? You could just go to Amazon, where all books are sold, and and and look up David Richmond and and my books will come up. Or you can go to cycle of lives dot org. Cycle of lives dot Org, and that will talk about, you know, all the things I'm doing in the book and the charities that we're supporting and all that good stuff. Fantastic. will go check it out and excited to say what you come up with next. Thank you, Joey. I appreciate that absolutely. We got in with a Corny joke, as we always do. How did the lawyer who suffered an a C l tear still win the race. I don't know he had power of a tornee. Oh, that's ridiculous. You know, my wife's an attorney, so I always love good I always love a good lawyer joke and and I'm gonna can I give you one just absolutely since we're on lawyer jokes, did you hear that it was so cold on the east coast the other day they actually spotted a lawyer walking down the street with his hands in his own pockets? That's great. We Love You, lawyers, yes, we do. I'm married. I love them all. Good people cool things. It's produced in Austin, Texas. If you were a fan of this episode, go ahead and hit that follow button. That helps more people here the show. You can send me a message, Joey,...

...at good people, cool things dot com. Thank you to all of the guests who have been on good people cool things. Can check out all the old episodes via good people, cool things dot com. As always, thank you for listening and have a wonderful day.

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