Good People, Cool Things
Good People, Cool Things

Episode 143 · 1 month ago

143: Blending Storytelling, Design, and Innovation with Hussain Almossawi

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Innovation is a word that gets thrown a lot, but it can be tough to know just what steps to take to actually innovate. How do you know what works and what's more futile than trying to talk to a friend during the encore of a rock concert?

Hussain Almossawi has always looked at ways to innovate while blurring the lines between storytelling, visual effects, and design. And it's led to creative opportunities with companies including Nike, Disney, Adidas, and ultimately, his own company, Almossawi Studios.

Luckily, Hussain is here to bring us along for the ride thanks to his book The Innovator's Handbook: A Short Guide to Unleashing Your Creative Mindset. We're talking about how to deal with pushback, the time one of his designs almost got hit with a lawsuit, and ways to be more innovative.

This episode is presented by MyLifeInABook.com. They offer a super fun way to get to know your loved ones better, collect timeless memories for future generations, and bring the family together! Use code "GPCT" at checkout or click right here and save

When I was a kid, maybe six or seven, eight years old something like that, our family had a program where you could make your own newspaper, and young journalistic Joey said, I want to do that. So I put on my little reporters cap, made up some stories, had some fake quotes. I don't really remember what the stories were about. They were pretty solid. I thought for being at second grade, like they had some good fact checking in there, so I had some good reporting. It was sort of a mix of household activities that were going on and as well as maybe some things at school. I think I just made up a couple of things too. From the sports world. That type of stuff is the dominant era of the Chicago Bulls, Michael Jordan's, Scottie Pippen, Phil Jackson, all the good stuff. And I made this whole newspaper. I thought, Hm, what am I gonna call my newspaper? And you know, not a lot of newspapers have daily or you know, The Times or something like that in it. So I was like, okay, I whant I get daily in there? For whatever reason. The name of that newspaper for it was the Daily h O A R. I'll let you say it I don't wanna. I don't want to impede with a bad word here, But just think about that h O a R. What does that sound like? I didn't know what the word it sounds like. Men. I just thought it sounded like bore to me, and I loved boor, I mean lion king. We got to mow and Puma and yes, I know he's a ward hog. That's kind of like a bore. So that was where my mind was. But apparently I just didn't know what I was talking about, and so the newspaper suffered. We had to fold because of that title. I guess I could have just changed the title and it would have been a real simple fix, but I didn't. It was devastating and the Daily h O A R had only that one issue. But the point was that I did something new. I built on something I I flipped the assumptions of what was possible, made my little newspaper here, and here I am today, still writing, still telling stories, almost three decades later. That's pretty wild, my guest today, as far as I know, never had a newspaper growing up, but he did have a journal where he would make all kinds of different designs and ideas and use that to continue his interest in learning new things and wanting to explore graphic design, c g I, motion effects, all these cool things, as well as telling stories. So we bond over that because you should kind of blend all of these together to become a more proficient storyteller. He's worked with lots of big innovative companies like Nike, Adidas, Apple, Intel, and he's learned quite a bit along the way to form his own studios, now start his own business, create his own empire. So we're talking all about his very first designs, how he's risen up and created some very impressive, spectacular things, worked with some super collaborative people, almost got a lawsuit from the company. Will dive into all of that. It's...

...a lot of glorious stuff. His book, The Innovator's Handbook is available right now, and if you've got any kind of creative project idea, you can just want to learn a little more. In general, it's full of actionable, tactical advice, and it's not like some long college textbook that's two thousand pages and serves as a paperweight in the meantime, serves as a brick. I guess in the meantime where you could chuck it at someone and actually do some damage. It's a designed to be taken with you, designed to be kept by your desk. Refer to quick and dirty, super easy to digest, to read, and to implement. And that's probably the most important part. I'm Joey held this is good people, cool things. And here's my conversation with Hussein al Musawi. Can you give us your name and elevator pitch, but also the type of elevator that we're writing on. All right, So my name is Jsan al Mussoe. I'm a c g I artist, products and her and author of The Innovator's Handbook, a book that came out a month ago, and I run my own studio called Mussaui Studios, where I work on digital worlds and physical was I tried to blur the lines between the two. Do you remember the first thing that you designed where you were kind of like, okay, this this might be something here I designed since I was a kid. I mean it's running the family. The artistic side of things. Uh, it's really tough. Like if I want to go really back, I remember I had like a small journal that I used to just sketch some futuristic ideas. And yeah, like I drew a train, I drew a car, I drew a shoe. I don't know what came first, but I was always thinking about what. I was fascinated by the future and by great ideas. I guess that's something that I was always into. Did you successfully predict all of the crazy things that are part of our life now? Back then? There is one thing I did a train, uh, and my idea was that And I don't know if this exists, like exactly this way, but the idea was that you'd put magnets behind the train, like large magnets. I was like, I was a seven year old, So a large magnets that would turn around and then would push against the track and then push the train. And I think something along those lines were made. Uh. So I don't know, I got to look into it. Don't take my worch for it predicting the future that I like. I like it. And so in addition to the Innovator's Handbook, which has just come out, you had another birth, which is the birth of your child. So congratulations, than we got two big, two big things going on towards the end of the year. Here have you have you found that reading your book to your child helps with sleeping or or common out or have you not tried that yet? I'm not gonna even try it. And but just for too many ideas, they'll never go to sleep. So where did the book? Where did the idea from the book or for the book, I should say, come from? Because I mean, you've you've been designing since you were a kid. It sounds like you maybe had like a little your little journal was was maybe an early version of so boast of like a...

...book where you would, you know, refer to it, you you drop down ideas and things. So was that sort of the impetus for it or was there something else that was like, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna turn what I know into a book. Sure? So, so as a kid, I was always fascinated by innovators and innovations and big ideas, and to me, it always felt that this is something that's really overwhelming, like how can I ever become a great innovator? How did this person think of this idea? And just being an aspiring designer, aspiring innovator, always being curious, I was always trying to find ways of how I can better find ideas to innovate and come up with ideas. So I always had this dream to work for companies like Nike Adidas. I was always into sports, And in two thousand twelve, when I've got my first opportunity to intern got a design internship with Nike, things really changed for me. I got to see things from the inside. Uh. I then got to work with Adida's, got to work with a Sports, got to work with Apple, for lots of different companies, so all these big and innovative companies. Then the idea of the book came was, Okay, I'm seeing lots of overlapping patterns between these companies. How they think, How these brilliant minds think. How can I simplify this into a fun short book that me as a twenty year old, eighteen year old aspiring designer in college, for example, I could just read these learn from these insights, from these principles of what makes me a better innovator. So so that was the whole idea, compiling these thoughts, these principles, these insights, putting them in a fun short tread, and then also making it very actionable. So some things are just ideas, and I share stories as of personal stories of things that I've seen in the industry. But then there's also exercises that we did as a team in the industry, like things that allowed us to come up with new ideas and ideate and brainstorm as a team. So I tried to cover both grounds in this short fun book. Do you have a favorite of the exercises? So in the book there's many, of course, but in the book, I highlight eight that I really like. One of them for examples called forced connections, and force connection is taking two very different things that are not related to each other, bringing them together and coming up with an idea out of it. So for example, if I said bicycle wheel and a guitar for example, so as just concept at this point, it doesn't really have to work. Maybe I can use the strings of the guitar and put it in the wheel, and then as you're writing, maybe it plays some music, for example. So just forcing those connections of things that have nothing to do with each other. And there's this great book called The Medici Effect by Franz Johnson. He talks a lot about finding these intersections and combining ideas that are not related, and how innovation can come to life out of this. So this is one and and also by the way, in biomimicry. My master's degree was in biomimicry finding innovation through nature, and there's a lot of this. Looking at for example, I did I designed the car, and I looked at the too can bird. So the two can beak. It's one third is totals eyes,...

...but it's uh, it's like fiftent it's total mass, it's weight. So how can I get this lightweight structure that's super super durable, super strong, and then apply this to a car structure. So again taking those learnings, bringing nature, bringing automotive, busing them together. So that's one thing. Another great exercise that I like is called flipped assumptions. So you use your assumptions of any product. Let's say I'm designing a phone, or let's say it's a concept for a restaurant. What does the restaurant usually have. What are our assumptions? It has chairs, it has a chef, it has a opening time, closing time, they cook food for you, and so on. Now flip those assumptions. All right, it doesn't have a chef, Then okay, do you take your own food? It doesn't have chairs? Is it like picnic style? It doesn't have this. So so it just allows you and forces you to look at things through a whole different lengths and with a new perspective. And sometimes some ideas work, some don't, and it's totally fine. But again, like, how can you be pushed to think outside of a box? And I think of new ideas that you never thought of. So those are two that I really like and enjoy. I like it, and the bicycle and guitar a good reminder that I both need to replace my bike's tires and my guitar strings, so I'd like it. That's how I'm That's how I'm pairing the two's. I've got to get this done. Well, we'll talk some more about some of the companies that you worked as a little teaser for the top three so entice people to stick around. But I always think with these innovative companies, you know you hear you hear about them, or if you've worked for them, you you experience it up front. And I've worked, like I think I've been pretty lucky to also work for companies that are very big on innovation and will actually allow you to explore something or you know, go after something that maybe another company might be like, no, that's not part of your job description, like just just stay in this line here. So I was curious, have you ever gotten pushback or resistance on something and how like how did you get through that? Yeah, that happens, of course everywhere you work, anywhere you work, small companies, but companies, there's always pushback, and there's good pushback and bad pushback. There's a worked with teams that are super positive teams where rebounce ideas of each other. I give them an idea, they don't like the idea. But also how you react to an idea. So there's something called the power of an Let's say you give me an idea, I can easily like, let's say you say, let's design this phone, but it should be a red colored phone, and I don't like that idea. So I can say, yeah, that's a great idea, and maybe we can also try a blue color. So just that power of and it really keeps the momentum and keeps a positivity in the team. And I've seen lots of great ideas come out of small teams, big teams, but positive vibes, that's the number one thing. And I've also been on teams where negativity has killed ideas from the very beginning of ideation due to jealousy, due to uh, people just now wanting other people's ideas to come out, you know, if it's not their idea. So so to answer your question, I'd say too, ing a positive team that's number one. And from your...

...perspective as a designer, as an innovator, also being very open to like not being arrogant and saying that your idea is the idea. Because how innovation really works is you plan to go from point A to point B, but you usually land on point C. So allow for yourself and for your team to push each other and to move you forward to that point C, which is the innovation territory, and you'll you'll usually land on a on a thing or on a place, on an idea that you didn't even have in mind. So to have that openness too, to accept new things and to listen to people and to work with people and bounce ideas of each other. So that's definitely a well needed thing in innovation. Yes, yes, I fully fully agree. No notes that's fantastic. And have you found that I mean, I think, you know, the the advent of technology, there's many people that I have worked with who I've never met in person. We're doing this call from from different locations. Have you found that that's ever been a limitation on innovation or does it? Does it kind of expanded almost too, because it's like, hey, we're you know, we're not right in the same room. It's maybe not like the the energy of that room is is in both of us, Like we've each bringing kind of our our unique flare to it. Do you do you think that, I guess distances is beneficial for innovation or is it is it a little stifled for it? I think it's an advantage, And of course it comes down to the person, like do you prefer to work with people like in an office? Do you like to do things online? But I worked, for example, with a designer in Albania, Marine Mifteo, and we designed We designed the Jaguar concept car. We designed Encycle electric bike, which got lots of awards and recognition around the world. Um and the Encycle was the project that allowed us to meet each other in Germany and we presented the bike at euro Bike and then we designed the end three and a couple of other projects, and three was a three wheel electric strike. So if it wasn't for working with people online and from a distance, I would have never met Marine, and I wouldn't have met other people that I met through Marine, and he wouldn't have met people that he met through me, and we wouldn't have had this friendship and this partnership and collaboration. So so definitely it opens doors and it allows for people to to get together that what I've never had the chance. But on the other hand, also I've worked with teams where it gets a bit more intimate. You're in the same room, you feel the positivity, people are excited, you work much longer hours. Uh So, I think both have their own benefits, and it really depends on the person and the team as well. So who really keeps you going? Like with Marine, for example, we shared lots of ideas, We bounced ideas of each other even though we're in a distance, but those ideas really led to big things and had huge impact, and I felt good working with him. He felt the same. Uh So, Yeah, Again, it really goes back to the specific situation and the project that you're working on. It's hard to tell which one is better. Yeah, I think the only time I'm I would say like antie...

...remote is if everyone else is in one room and I'm like the lone person was sick or something and I'm like I still want to hear everything, and then it's just it's like trying to wrangle school children. It's like twenty twenty people. They're all like dissonant across the room and it's like sure, and the bigger the group gets also, I mean you have people who are introverse extroverts. Sometimes you have amazing ideas and you just sit in the back. You're afraid to share your ideas. You're afraid of being judged. I think fear is like the number one thing that holds people back, and you have that situation. I mean, when it's a bigger group, sometimes people are the most amazing ideas are just quite the whole time. So I personally like to work in smaller groups, even like two to three people maximum, where I'm very close with. I know that they believe in me, I believe in them. And then we can work together as a unit. So that's key for me. I have one selfish question that might be I might be helpful to other people planning a trip, but I am planning a European trip next spring. And when you said Germany, that's like top of my So is there a spot you you must go to in Germany? Yes? So when I worked as a senior designer, they did this, I flew a lot to Germany. That's the world headquarters. I love Germany. Then, I mean, I'm someone who really loves scenic places and it's really really beautiful, especially the borders between Germany and Switzerland and Austria. If you like nature, that's the place to go. Eavan on Earth lovely. I love hearing that. That's that's what I'm mapping out. So far, so fantastic. We'll report back. We'll do a follow up segment in in June, and we can subserphany something else that I I like in how you like this is a part of your bio is that you love blurring the lines between product design, visual effects, and storytelling. And I was just talking with someone how he's like, I love like like writing and design should be something that are together and and a lot of times they do get separated. And so since you are blurring these, what are some of the ways you do that and how can other people do that to you? So I think this takes us back to the very first question that you asked about force connections. When I'm when I'm thinking even about my process and the way I work. So, for example, let's say I'm designing a shoe, and when I was in the industry, they used to have like one or two programs that where you could design the shoe and three D and that's it. That's the way they did it. But I never knew how to use those programs. I came in with a visual effects background, and I knew how to use programs. It might sound foreign, but it's called Houdini. They use it for like movies and for games, and you do crazy effects in it, explosions and fluid simulations and so on. So so I came in with the idea of using Houdini to design my footwear and design algorithms to design my footwear, and it created a whole different set of outputs and things that were very unexpected and the team hadn't seen before. And the advantage was that I was using something that wasn't really meant for product design industrial design, and I was bring that...

...into my process and designing shoes out of it. So so that's how I blur the lines between things that are and the physical world shoes and the digital world my three D experience. I'm bringing those together. So it could be an esthetic, it could be a functional thing where I'm taking data from an athlete's foot, then plugging that into my program and then creating algorithms out of it, and then seeing the different outputs that I can have. It's just like AI design if you've seen AI generated images recently, so it's the same thing. It's something that we never used before. Now it's become a new tool that we can use for ideation. So again, how can you bring different things from all different places and blur the lines between those. That's something that I'm very passionate about because I've studied graphic design, I've studied industrial design. With my studio, I heavily working visual effects c g I, and I'm very passionate about all of them. So how can I really produce all well while also not just focusing on one thing? So that's really what I'm very interested and excited. Then do you have something that you may be haven't shown anyone or shown too many people. We're like, oh, I'm excited about this, but it's it's maybe not fully ready for the world yet. There's always projects. So one thing that I do, like outside of my client work is what if, So what if an existing brand did the product that they never did. That's something I do for fun and I usually share it online and it gets some good reactions. So one that I'm working on now is what if Mercedes, the car company, they designed the future sick sneaker. So I'm looking at visual elements from like their concept cars and bringing that into my foot towear experience then producing issue that was never done before. I did the same with Tesla, what do Tesla soccer boots look like? And the conversation online gets really crazy. Like when I posted those, people even get creative. They chip in with ideas like maybe it's a football boot that can auto score just you know, sort of auto drive tickets can just outo score And people get silly and funny with ideas, and that's what design is all about. And there's those silly, funny ideas that really that I love because they're very futuristic and we think that they're crazy. But then we start to ask the right questions, Okay, how can I actually do that? What if I am thinking of a shoe for two thousand, one hundred or three thousand year three thousand, how can I make that happen your two thousand twenty two. So bringing the future closer to where we are today and then bridging that gap and then seeing, Okay, maybe you can manufacture it this way. Maybe we can't design it this way. Maybe if we did this or did this or did this, And that's what really always pushes the envelope. Man, That's why it really keeps me going. I like it, but I think ellen should be taken notes here, like let's get let's get a football boot and not worry about check marks on Twitter like that that's gonna Yeah. When I do these concepts, I'm always worried it's either gonna get a good reaction or a lawsuit, one of the two. So so we did the Jaguar concept car, the one that I mentioned with Marine, my friend Marine MITEO. It was the same time that one of I don't remember exactly which car, but Jaguar was releasing a new car. This wasn't two thousand and eleven, and it's got a lot of exposure on different design...

...websites, blogs. Jaguar Magazine actually put it under cover, that's how excited they were about it. And then the next day we got an email from somebody from the company like, hey, guys, I need some details from you, and like we were excited. You know, they're going to buy the guard by the idea that's it. We made it actually on Twitter. He reached out, he said he wants our emails, and then we we sent him our emails and we were super excited, anxious waiting. So we got an email that it was if you don't remove it, or don't change the name of the car, or don't change the logo. It was like, you know, a lawsuit is coming your way if you and we were super confused, like it was on the Jagger magazine and then we have this guy from their PR team is it's threatening us for the lawsuits, so you know it is what it is. Well hopefully I hopefully you you satisfied their requirements before Actually we were students had that time. So and I wasn't going to sign anything or do anything, but but I learned the lesson at least. And also there's a risk. I mean some companies they are very sensitive with their brand, uh, whe their logos, and it was a sense of time which we didn't know, like another car was coming out and people are talking about our car, not their car. So I can see like, uh that it wasn't a good idea what we were young students. It was done with good intentions, and then eventually we removed the logos and everything and everything was good and they were happy, we were happy. So but yeah, that's interesting stories. Yeah, yeah, I always think, and you know, having having worked with large companies, like I fully understand protecting the brand and and yeah, if it's done with malice, I'm like I understand that. But sometimes I'm like, I don't know this. This kind of seems like good, good brand. Most people who do it, they do it out of love for the brand, Like I'm sure, like if you go and be hands, which is a design website where people can post their portfolios and works, there's lots of concept for Samsung phones for iPhones, and people do it because they love the brand. They love Apple, they love Samsung, they love Ford, they love in all these big companies, and as young designer as we look up to these big companies that oh, I want to be at that level. I want to do something that is as cool as them. So it's always done with appreciation to the brand. But uh yeah, you gotta be careful. Sometimes. Today's sponsor is my Life in a Book dot Com and it's a really special one for me because we don't often get to offer a truly unique, meaningful, and life changing gift to our loved ones. We're usually getting something symbolic like, you know, a chocolate that someone really likes, or a material objects like boggle or que. I mean, who's a great game boggle? I could take it or leave it, but I know some people Peggy Hill, she loves some boggle. Those gifts, sure they're great, but they don't truly build a legacy or our loved ones. With My Life in a Book dot com, you can give any close family member of your choice the opportunity to write their own life story for future generations. You get to learn everything about them their...

...biggest childhood challenge. For me, it was pull ups when we had to do pull ups in gym class. I'd watch my other classmate too. Maybe weren't chunky kids. They do ten fifteen pull ups like it ain't no thing. I couldn't even get one today. You give me a pull up bar, I still probably can't get one. They're very hard. I don't like pull ups. The craziest thing they've ever done as young adults probably a volunteer trip I went on to the Dominican Republic while I was in college. It was a month of adventuring and helping build schools and teaching kids English. It was fantastic. I would highly recommend anyone do anything like that. Those are just two of the questions. There's much more My life in a book. Dot Com makes the process so so easy. Your loved one will get a question of your choice every week. You can either select from a suggested list or write your own. If you want to really ask someone about nature or their favorite travel destinations or anything like that, all they have to do is answer the question and provide a meaningful picture. At the end of one year, they're all gathered in a beautiful keepsake book, and you can order as many additional copies as you want. My mom a few years ago was going through some old photo books and I had a lot of cool photos but didn't have the context for all of them. And if she had something like this, we could have had a big old keep saying we can grab all those photos, we can put questions and answers to them. Make it a wonderful, truly magical experience for both of us because I'm learning more about her, She's getting to see all of these things put together, It's wonderful, fantastic. Think about it. What better way to show your loved ones how much their life means to you, and what better way to preserve their memories and life lessons for the future. And because you are listening to this show, I got you with ten dollars off your first purchase. Just use discount code GPCT. It's also in the show notes. If you just want to click a link, you're like, I don't want to type stuff, I just want to click link. I got you covered there. That's gpc T to get ten dollars off on my life in a book dot com and perhaps that seguents nicely and to you starting your own business back in twenty nineteen and was that something that you you would always kind of wanted to be working up to or was it just you were at a point where I'm like, hey, I want to do a lot of different work with with different people, and you were getting a lot of requests like how did that go from individual to to full studios? So as a as a designer, when I was back in middle school, I'd say I always had this dream Nike, ADID This, or even Disney, like these were three companies that I was dreaming about. And I came from a small island called Bahrain. It's on the other side of the world in the Middle East. Not a lot of people know what the country is so small, not much going on there. But I always had this dream. I always looked at myself as a dream chaser. How can I have these big aspirations, these big goals, these big dreams to one day work in these companies that I to work for. So I...

...came, I said it in the US, and I thought that it's going to be much easier now to get in. But visa situations and it's not as easy as as it is. You I need a work permit too to actually work in the US. So so there are lots of challenges for me, and I applied over eighty times to these companies until I actually got in over five years, and I didn't give up. And that's the thing, persistence and believing in your dreams, walking the walk, and I just talking the talk. That's really big. So a long story short, I got into a design internship with Nike, I moved to a sports I worked with Adidas as a senior designer. That was always my dream, working with signature athletes James Harden and the NBA football players and so on. So my thing is I always ask myself. I should never be satisfied. I should always ask myself what's next. So for me at that time, what's next was starting my own company. Like I felt I was on the inside, I was in this big corporate bubble. I had lots of great experiences, met lots of amazing people. But what what's the next. Big goal for me is to start my own studio, build my own empire rather than be a number in a big company. At the end of the day, when you work for any company or just a number, and we see it like when there's economic situations, they will just get rid of you. Just the next day, nobody will mention your name. So I wanted to create something for myself, create my own studio, and then through my own studio, I was fortunate enough to continue working with I did this with Nike, with all these big brands that I always dreamed of, and it's been, uh, it's been a great experience. And again, of course I'm asking myself, what is next? Do I want to keep growing the business? How do I grow the business? Who do I want to keep working with? What are some of the clients? How much money do I want to make? Again, keep pushing myself, Keep pushing myself. Never be satisfied, because the moment that you think you've made it, I think that's the moment that you failed. I like, and have you found that there's you know, of the of those questions you all just asked or or something else. Has there been something that's a challenge that kind of took you by surprise? Of like, I don't know if I was expecting that. I always thought that, and I think lots of people think this that you always have a gyam company when you work for and you think once you make it, that's it. You're in the happy land and everything is good and you know, you're just happy all the time. But it's just people. I mean, it's a big brand, it's a logo behind it that you're you know, you're working in a closed office, but it's just people. The same problems that you have in any different company. The jealousy is the egos, the politics, the gossip, the good people, the bad people, people who want to step on each other. So you see those closely, and to me, that's a very shocking thing. But then in the beginning it was very shocking, but then as I moved between different companies, I saw that everywhere. So then you've got to choose your battles. You got to choose who you want to work with, You got to choose your close circle, the positive people that you want to be with. And that was, I guess, shocking experience to me. That allowed me to think beyond working in the industry and starting my own thing and building my own team around me. So so that was definitely like the biggest shot. Another question I always like to ask us the question you wish you were asked more frequently, And I think...

...this this goes back to to kind of you know, reversing the flipping assumptions where I think most people would be like, how can I turn my passion into a business? But with you, it's how do you turn your business into a passion? So how do you do it? Yeah, how do you turn your business into a passion? I think it takes us back to how do you turn your passion into a business. So the reason I started my business because I had the passion. I always love design. I always loved sports. That's how I got started into designing, and that's how I grew and I built my network, my connections, and that's what I do today because from day one I always love this, never felt like work. I work seven anyways, and not literally seven, but I work all the time around the clock. So I love it. I love what I do. I enjoy it. I enjoy collaborating with people. I enjoy producing stuff that people get excited about, creating experiences. So when I started my business, it was really easy step that I had the passion, I had already freelanced a lot in the past, I had the connections, I had the network. Of course, when you start, there are different set of challenges. Like I learned a lot of things as a business owner versus just a designer working for a company and having a strategy growing the business, building a network, building a team around yourself. But I guess the number one thing is you shouldn't be overwhelmed by all of this. There's a lot of things that are involved. Just take baby steps, and when you start a company, you're not really an empire just by yourself. You're doing the same things. But that's the way you market yourself, the way you brand yourself, the way you put yourself out there to the world, the things that you do, your expertise and letting people be excited about what you do, and attracting new business to yourself. So that's that's the number one thing. When I start my own business, I love it, love it. Yeah, I think it's it. But that point about you're still an individual when you first start, like it can it can feel like, oh, I'm I need to dive head first and everything, And I think that's just a great way to to scare your away from really Actually, like I've had friends who were with me in the industry. They wanted to start, and they were they were really scared of like simple stuff like all legal contracts, logo, website. OK, it's all important stuff, but you can't start without any of that. I mean, to set up an LC in the States, it's like two fifty or it's nothing. Any accountant, your even yourself, you can set it up and that's all you need. You don't even need that. You can't even start without that as a freelancer. So it's really easy. But we sometimes are overwhelmed by the different things that are out there, Like we think company, We think it's this huge thing. I need an office, I need a space. No, you can work from home. I mean, COVID taught us all that we can all work from home. So there's a lot of ways to cut post. There's a lot of ways to do things easier. And you know, again flipping assumptions of how things should be done and doing it in a different way. Definitely, and sometimes you might mess up and like that's fine too, like you. And that's one of the titles in the book, Learning to Fail, whether you're...

...starting a business or designing a new product, learning to fail. Every failure is something that it's a lesson because now that I've failed ten times, I know that I shouldn't be doing those ten things that I did and when I did those ten mistakes, and if you haven't done those ten mistakes, I'm more experienced than you know, So use those two advantage. Those failures aren't other things that are going to take me down. There are things that are going to elevate you. When you have that mindset to his failure, you just keep growing, growing, growing and building and just achieving great things. So definitely learning to fail. It's a huge thing in life. And I just design. All Right, who's saying you're almost off the hook here, but we always like to wrap up with the top three, and we've kind of been teasing us throughout the episode. You've mentioned some of the companies that you work for, But if you had to narrow it down to the top three companies you've worked for and maybe maybe a reason why too, what are they? So? The first would be Nike. When I started my design internship, the way I looked at design and innovation it was totally different before and after Nike. When I worked with Nike changed one eight degrees. I learned a lot about how they approach innovation, how they look at as everything as innovation. Like I always thot, Nike is a sports company, but when or a shoe company, but when you go in the company, they tell you know, we're an innovation company. But with design shoes, with design sports products, it's a it's a whole different mindset. So definitely Nike is number one. I have lots of appreciation for the people who work there, the designs that they do, the innovation, the products. An amazing company. So that's one. Uh two would be Apple. So I worked with Apple for a whole year. I can't mention the product again, worried about legality. But what I learned that Apple was the obsession to details. It was crazy. The obsession to details, like the product that we were working on. Let's say when it goes out to the keynote or you see it in the store. The lighting, Okay, it's it's lit maybe a bit from the from the side, but then we need a bit of flying from the bottom. Then the shadow that is between the buttons and the product, and this and that, and it's just things that you never thought about, never thought about when you're looking at just a piece of like an advertising obsession to details, and after Apple, I was always looking at things with great obsession, Like even my wife was started off. It's like it's just overdoing everything in life. But it wasn't intentional like it was. It was something that I appreciated a lot, and I loved working with Apple, and it's something that I continue in my work to this day. Whatever I do, there's always obsession to the details, and that's what makes Apple Apple. They're highly highly, highly obsessed with details. So so that's that's the second one Apple. Then the third one. Uh. I'd say I did this because I worked with a lot of great athletes, signature athletes, a lot of great designers. I learned a lot that I did this. I learned a lot about innovation, about design, about manufacturing, being within a team that is and innovative, working with the good and the bad. So I...

...had lots of amazing experiences there that elevated me and allowed me to grow. So it was a dream company that I always wanted to work for. So Yeah, Nike, Apple, and dy This those three a nice list. A nice list there, well, same, thanks so much for taking the time to chat. This was fantastic and I highly recommend the Innovators Sam book to I mean, I would say just about anyone. I guess if you have no hopes or aspirations, then I don't know. It's still might it still might inspire you a little bit, but definitely for everyone to come up with new ideas, push the boundaries and a small insights. It's a fun short book to inspire you on supercharge you so and if people want to find it or learn more about you, where can I find you? So? The books on Amazon, The Innovator's Handbook, to find me on Instagram? Uh this type my name, you'll find me? And LinkedIn. Uh yeah, those are the top two that I'm active and so very easy to find. Awesome, fantastical. Thank you again for taking the time chat, and we hope at least in the coming weeks you get a little more sleep since you've you've got a new more child. Thank you, Thank you to handle it. And of course we've got to end with a corny joke, as we always do. This one's a little bit of a mouthful, so we'll see how I can get through it. But Quentin Tarantino, Greta Gerwig, and Matthew McConaughey are all getting together to make a movie. Tarantino said, you know what, I'll produce this Gerwig says, I'll direct it. McConaughey, He goes, I'll right, all right, all right, good after Today People, Good People, Cool Things is produced in Austin, Texas. If you're a fan of this episode, go ahead and hit that follow button that helps more people here the show. You can send me a message Joey at Good People, Cool Things dot com. Thank you to all of the guests who have been on Good People, Cool Things, and check on all the old episodes via Good People, Cool Things dot com. As always, thank you for listening, and have a wonderful day.

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