Good People, Cool Things
Good People, Cool Things

Episode 15 · 2 years ago

15: The Art of Writing and Publishing with Eric Carasella

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Author and writer Eric Carasella shares more than two decades of experience in writing and publishing, whether it's on Medium or publishing three books. We also discuss the "leap" of quitting a corporate job to go freelancing full-time.

Welcome to good people, cool things, the podcast featuring conversations with entrepreneurs, writers, musicians and other creatives. I'm your host, Joey held, and today's guest is Eric Carasella, a writer based in Orlando, Florida. Eric is a writer, a medium. He's published three books. You can find his work all over the Internet and, of course, in print as well, because that's that's how bucks work, unless we're going the ebook route, which is not the case here. And Eric has been around the writing game for quite some time. So he's got lots of great tips, both on the writing process as well as marketing both yourself and your work, how you can find likeminded communities to join and get involved with. Lots of great resources and insights. So, even if you're not a writer and you just want to know how to mark it yourself and your business a little better, you definitely want to tune in. But don't just take my word for it. Let's get Eric on here to chat. To start, let's get your elevator pitch. Let's it. Let's say we're on an elevator, as the bay suggests, and you're trying to wow me and we're going from floor eight so you got eight floors. It's okay, got you. So Hey, Joe, check this out right. I'm a freelance writer. I've written three books, three self published novels, all fiction. I'm also a article writer for medium, for coffee house writers, for vocal. I've been writing for the past thirty years. My job is to you know, whatever it takes right any kind of writing. That's me. It's what I like to hear, whatever it takes, but I think is a good writer mindset in general, and I'm glad you'm at medium because that's where we connected. Correct you read a very tongue in cheek post I had done about items you should do. It are things you should do every morning to make your day a little more productive, which it was awesome. Oh, thank you, thank you, it was awesome. And I said that I'm like wow, yeah, heavily inspired by having seen a lot of similar, similar sounding things where, you know, a lot of advice of getting up at for thirty in the morning and meditating for an hour and a half, which doesn't doesn't sound great to me. I mean, if it works for people, who am I to judge? That? For me did not sound and that's not a feeling. So I wanted to make a fumble kind of response to that. So I'm glad you enjoyed and I'm glad right, I did. I did. It was it was very much something I wanted to say but never had the balls to say, and that's what I respected about your piece and I even think I mentioned that in my comment. I don't remember actually what my response was, but it was something to the effect of Man, that's awesome. You know that you said what I was thinking. Yes, yes, that's what...

I'm here for, the voice for the people that want to be smart assets have better common sense about it, and so definitely want to get to the book writing. But for starters, how did you get into writing? Do you remember the first thing that you ever wrote? Well, if we want to get back to you know my initial, you know, fascination with it. That was in grade school. I grew up with a father who loved reading right, so he had Steven King books everywhere, right and he read everything. He had a library that he built in our basement and on this bookshelf for books that if I pulled one out and it might have not been for a little kids. So he would tell me, well, you might not be old enough to read this. So that fascinated me. Right, anytime anything that's taboo, we want to touch, right, we want to read, we want to learn about so for me that's when the itch started. Was Way, way, way, way back when. So in grade schools when I started writing short stories. We're talking fourth grade, five grade. Okay, okay, I like that. I feel like that was probably about the same time when I really started getting into writing things, also short stories, because I think that's just all our attention spans can, yes, handle at that point. Yes, and here I am still writing short stories. That okay up. Who knows what that says about me? I do, I vaguely remember. I don't know if this is the first thing I wrote. This is definitely one of the earliest things I remember writing. was both a short story and an illustrated book of me and a couple of my grade school friends somehow getting into a basketball game with the Chicago Bulls and defeating them with some some ridiculous score, like in the four hundreds or something, and what I can only assume was a regulation basketball game. So just a very, you know, very high scoring, no defense kind of affair. But how three four fifth graders, we're able to take out a team of professional basketball players. That was your first short story, as far as I remember. Yeah, I remember my crowd of mom had saved it because it was like a I mean, no, no, like binding or anything like this, but, you know, just a couple pages stapled together that we had all done for an assignment. It was I mean, I'm from Chicago, so anybody that writes a Chicago Bulls story is always fascinating. Oh, lovely, what part I'm probably I grew up in Lombard. Okay, now, no, I mean it's Cookey's not too far, but yeah, we're just outside of Chicago all that good stuff. So as as Bulls fans, that's pretty cool that that was your story, right. Yes, fully based in reality, of course, love that. Totally based in reality. You would have whoopd them. Fantastic. Well, you've continued nude writing to this day. That's correct. So I took a I mean I was always writing right a little bit, whether it was, you know, for a school project or I had an idea. So right around the age of twenty two,...

Wi ish, I went to film school in New York City and I went to the New York Film Academy, and so I had to get back into writing because the the program I took we had to write a film, we had to direct to film, we had to edit a film and we had to shoot a film made to be the cameraman or woman. So that was a cool project to really sort of get me reinvigorated right into the creative scene, because I had lapsed for several years. You know, as a young man of sixteen, Seventeen, eighteen, I discovered alcohol and women and you know all the bad things that go along with that. So I kind of lapsed. But when I got back into it for film school, what I realized was that I had no desire to make movevies. What I did have a desire to do was write stories, right, so I started getting into that aspect of it and that was sort of the next phase for me, was sitting down in front of a word process or at the time, and writing these stories, these short stories. That's fantastic. And so do you remember some of the or one of the highlights from that, or was it more just kind of getting back into the swing of things? I remember the moment where I had to come up with my film synopsis, essentially because we had to make, all of us had to make a ten minute movie, or ten minute Max I should say, was our was our final project. So I remember in my head, four months before I even left for New York City, was to think of man, what am I going to make, what am I going to shoot? What kind of story do I want to tell? And I remember that was the moment where I really understood the the mindset, I guess, you know, about how to get back into that space, about okay, we've got to really dedicate, you know, whatever it is, to creating this story. And I thought that was the moment, and whether it is or not, I don't know, but based on how I remember it, that's that's the moment we're really got back in the swing of things. For me awesome. It's always nice to hear those Aha moments, whether it's a writer or business owner, anything like that. And then, as far as medium goes, because I feel like medium has been around. If I was really throw in my research for this episode, I would have looked up when medium was founded, but I feel like it's been somewhere in the neighborhood of like eight to twelve years it's been around and I still feel like it's a very novel concept to a lot of people I know, just between like colleagues and clients. They have little to no experience with it. Some people don't even know what it is when I bring it up to them, and which is disappointing to me because I think it's such a fantastic space of writers for so many different topics. Like I'm subscribed to just a weird handful of different, you know, subcategories and groups and everything, and I'll get the newsletters where it's just like hey, I you know, I tried walking, you know, from to stick with the Chicago...

...theme, walking from the Sears Tower, which it will always be known as now it's not any correct, down to the Chicago Indiana border barefoot, and here's what I like along the way and I'm just like this is like who comes up with this? But it's, yes, so terrific just to see all these people from different walks of life having a platform to share their stories on there. So I'd love to know how did you get involved with medium and what kind of success have you seen writing on it? Well, I'll tell you what. It's much like the story you just told. I didn't know anything about it until I decided to go full freelance. Right. So when I gave up my corporate job, we'd have to go into details, but I had this really good corporate job, a great, great salary, greet benefits, all that stuff. I said, I'm not happy, I want to go full time freelance writing. I was able to do that. I was very fortunate. So I did it and by the research, by getting involved with with groups on facebook and and read it and all sorts of people that new things. They directed me towards this place, this platform, which was medium, right. That, to me was sort of the common denominator that everybody I talked to set. They said go check out medium, medium meeting, right. So that's what I did and when I got there, what I was amazed about was kind of like what you said, was people are writing about everything, you know, sex stories, political stories, financial stories, whimsical stories, fiction, everything. That was amazing to me and to me I felt like I was home. That's awesome and I like the I heard, I can't remember who told me this, but someone had said that medium was like having a blog, like starting a blog. That already has like a million or two million or whatever whatever the number was back then. Readers. Yes, more than that now, which is a pretty good way of thinking. Like, if you want your right am and as someone who started multiple websites, it's a little bit of a challenge to get new readers over to your site, especially as more websites come out every day. But having that really established base in medium and as you've touched on a little bit, there's publications on there too, so you can get your piece featured in a publication and anyone that subscribe to that gets to see it, as well as just finding it through search, through newsletter, however the case may be, and I think it's just such a great opportunity for people that kind of want to get their feet wet with writing, as well as established writers, and you can really get a nice message across. So, whether it's an actually like well written and thought out article or something like I did, where I was just like, I've seen a lot of these weird, you know, selfhelp sort of things, let me take it a little bit of a different angle. Yeah, yeah, and that's exactly what it is to me. You're always, you know, none of us likes the same things all the time, right, like, whatever your taste and fiction are might be different than mine, but the point is that you can find something...

...you like on there, and that's fascinating to me, you know, because there's very few platforms that have that. Like we can go to a bookstore and I have to go to the fiction section or I have to go to the self help section. With medium, everything is at my fingertips, you know, and I also can get introduced to someone like you that I may never have even looked at your profile unless your title either caught me or I even I don't even remember what it was that made me read your store, you know, to be honest. So that's amazing, right, yeah, absolutely. And for someone that is just getting started out on medium, let's say I have a friend that's like, Hey, I want to get on a medium, but I don't know where to start. What would you recommend for them as their first steps? It's just start writing, and I know that sounds vague and simplistic, that's really is the the basis, because to me, you're not going to get better unless you start writing and start getting some feedback and start seeing. Oh Gosh, I don't want to say something cliche like Oh, watch your writing grow, but that's really what it is, right, and it might take your friend a thousand pieces before he finds his voice, or it might take them five, I don't know. At the end of the day, though, I'd recommend getting on there and just start writing, create a presence and engage with other authors. Yeah, I think that's a great note as well. Is sometimes just leaving a comment, like I'll get in likes on comments that I've left, you know, three or four years ago, or someone's just stumbling onto a piece now and I was like, I forgot I wrote that. I don't even true way, sometimes that's right that, but you have to act and be like Oh, yeah, thanks, right. That's so true, though, and that's it. That's what's so great about the platform, and I really can't say enough good things about it, you know, especially to young writers, or new writers maybe is a better way to phrase it, because I'm certainly not young, so to you know, to be able to get somewhere where people will read it, even if it's not a lot of people, you're still getting eyes on your work and that's invaluable. Yeah, absolutely, and and some of the connection that made out medium have been Super Fun and I've definitely learned about a lot of new writers I and at the same time there's writers whose name I'll recognize after seeing them enough, as you know, related topics or getting a newsletters where I'm like, I don't know if I really like that writer that much. That's so true. I'm glad you said that, because I'll get stuff in my feed because as I read a few of their articles and I'm like, I don't necessarily agree with these people, but I find myself still reading them. So for them, right, the old hate read. Yeah, they hate read. That's great. I want to jump back a little bit because you made the plunge from the corporate job to full time freelance and I think that's a common a trend of a lot of listeners of this podcast is that they, you know, have some kind of side hustle, whether it's writing, starting a business, you know, any anything like...

...that. And for some people working aside hustles totally fine. That's what I do. I do enjoy my full time job and doing stuff on the side is just another creative outlet for me, while also making some Nice sidecash, which is always a good benefit. But yes, for some people it is a similar situation like that, were they really don't like their full time job and the side hustles what they ultimately want to be doing a hundred percent of the time. So how did you make that leap? Well, I mean I was in a good situation where I was able to meaning I had a lot of stockpile vacation time, I was able to take several months off, I was able to started driving for lift actually for a little while to supplement my income. But at the end of the day I knew that if I didn't leave the job, the corporate job, the comfort, I was going to die there, and I don't mean physically up by there, but I was going to die there, mentally, right, creatively, I was going to die there and I didn't want to do that because, you know, as creatives we tend to be a little dramatic about our our creativity. We tend to say things like if I can't do this, I'm not going to do anything, you know, and that's sort of what it was. Not to be stereotypical, but I think you get it. Yeah, I like that. I like that. Is there anything that's surprised you about freelancing? It's challenging, yes, and I knew it was going to be challenging, but I think the thing that surprised me was the way it was challenging, and by that I mean I didn't know enough about the systems that were in place on the Internet and in social media and all that stuff that I would need to know to really promote myself. That was the biggest challenge for me. So, if I'm giving advice, I'm saying learn the nuances of promoting yourself. Right, that was challenging. Yeah, I think that's a another cliche piece of advice that I've read somewhere where it's like writing is ten percent writing, a ninety percent marketing yourself, whatever. It is much, which is definitely not false and and I think can be the most difficult part. Sometimes I'll not out a piece really easily and then I'm just like well, how can I going to make sure people see that? So right, what do I do with it now? Exactly, and I think, I think that's the challenge for so many of us. Only because, you know, I was late to the social media party, not because I was ignorant of how it worked. But because I was resistant to because I think social media can be actually sort of toxic and, you know, in so many ways. But I also understood after getting into this that I needed it right. Yeah, it's it can certainly be toxic, but I think there's ways to be strategic about it. I know I'll give a shout out to August Birch, the book mechanic, who, yeah, I also discovered on on medium and also I've done my letter perfect. There you go. I mean, as far as medium goes, not a purpose, yes or yes, a...

...medium friend meedium friend, yes, and he was a big proponent of just taking like five minutes when you're waiting in line or, you know, like if you're on hold with the customer service Rapp or something, and just taking those opportunities to go work on your social presence, whether it's updating your profile or liking and commenting on other folkses posts. And I liked that a lot because, I mean I'm a big proponent of like not always being buried in your phone, but if you only have a few minutes throughout the day, like it might as well be while you're kind of stuck waiting for something to get onto your social channels, especially if you're not a huge fan of using them or, alternatively, if you use them way too much. If you can try and limit yourself to that, I think it's a nice sort of gold is set for yourself. You are correct, and that's he was absolutely correct. That guy's brilliant and some of his his tips are fantastic. So I totally agree. Excellent. August. Hope you're listening. Also, I was born in August, so I feel like I have I got some conscious by and this the twenty four. Oh my gosh, my son was born August twenty nine. So you guys, a her gooes, Nice, represent virga present. There it is. That's that's what we do. We do well, almost a Leoh, almost, Leah, I think I absolutely and that. You know, they came out with new yes, new ones, a couple well, I guess, yes, fifteen years ago, but it was after you were born, so it doesn't count. Okay, okay, so the stars were align the bright way when you were there. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, I like to say I'm a lion eating a virgin. That's my goodness. That's not because it's double, but I know I guess it could be the other way of virgin eating a lion. They are fiercepoil. I tell you what, the lions, not the virgins, but both ways really fantastic. All right, so, as I promised, I do want to chat about your book, because I think that's also a lot of people's goals. Yeah, it's to write a book, and you've written three of them. I've got three self published books. Yes, sir, three times the books that most people aspire to write. So very well done on that end and I think the self publishing route is becoming more wellknown, but I think there's still a lot of kind of missed three around it, if I want to make it sound real, lot, real intriguing. there. No, it is. So how did you decide a that the self publishing route with for you, and then can you kind of walk through what that process was like on your end? Absolutely so, in two thousand and six, to be real brief here, but in two thousand and six is when I decided to start writing full time. So on my birthday, January second of two thousand and six, I said that's it, every day I'm going to start writing. And it was based on a book called the artist way, which I'm sure you've heard of. Everyone knows the artist way anyway. So this book talked about the morning pages where you would write every single morning and then, obviously that would get your creative juice flow and and all that good stuff. So I started doing that by the end of two...

...thousand and six, going in the two thousand and seven, I had a first draft of my first novel, called the Wind. By about August, you know, probably around your birthday of two thousand and eight. The book was ready to go and I got in touch with I universe. I Universe is they you know. I can't speak for any other self publishing houses, but I know that they treated me very well. I paid for a package, basically a suite of services that included marketing, you know, editing, all kinds of stuff, creating the book, the cover, all that stuff, and I put my first book out as a self published novel through I universe. That was the first time, and then ended up coming to market in two thousand and nine. Awesome, awesome. And did you stick with our universe for the other two or well, for the second one, I did. I pause in case you need to edit, or whatever the case I'm being very dramatic here. I'll let it some yeah, I love that WHO. So for the second one, I did stick with our universe because I had such a good experience on the first one. But the well, I'll get to this in a second. So I went through our universe for the second one, which was called Odyssee of violence, which is also available through our universe and everywhere else. But the problem I had, and I didn't know it at the time, was I didn't know how to market these things. I did a book signing at a bookstore that used to be in town here. I live in Orlando Right now, Orlando Florida, and they used to have a bookstore called books a million, and I called them up and I said, Hey, am I able to do a book signing? They said sure, we're going to take ten percent of the whatever you sell, but you can set up a table in our shop and then stay here for four or five hours. I said, oh, that's great. So I had two dozen books with me, I think maybe three dozen, and I set up a table in their store and I had a signing. I've posted an on facebook at the time and told everyone to come at my family and all that stuff and I think maybe ten people bought books, but about fifty showed up right, so that was pretty exciting. But for Odyssey of violence, I didn't do that at all. I did no marketing because I didn't see any success after the wind. So I was very sort of, I don't know what the word is, depressed or sad or, you know, defeated, deflated, I don't know. But Anyway the point is that I'm like, I don't know what to do with these books. Right. So I stopped doing anything as far as self publishing. I still wrote, but I did self published again until two thousand and nineteen when I put the time before tomorrow, which is my third book. I put that on kindle unlimited and then that's been on there since November of two thousand and nineteen. So Nice. What was that process like? Work in with with kindle unlimited. It was easy to get it on there. But the trouble I'm having is tracking how it's doing on unlimited because you don't get to see sales because there are no sales. Everything is based on readership and they have to read a certain number of pages. So my issue right now is finding out the...

...those those metrics, right or those whatever the the the verbiage is for that, you know, the the METADATA for my book. That's been the biggest challenge. Yeah, we seems like a lot of the whether it's for books or music or movies or anything like that, a lot of the sort of aggregate platforms either give you very limited reporting data or, I like several months delayed reporting day or you know, yet you're getting stuff for November two thousand and nineteen now, right, right, and they do say that when you sign up to like it's every three months. Will of you sales data, but but they also have a metric for monthly data. So for me it's like, well, if you have it for monthly data, where is that monthly Dada? You know what I mean? It shouldn't just be very three months exactly. It's very perplexing and I will say I was recently listening to the Conan O'Brian needs a friend podcast with which highly recommend if you so good, or to anyone who who's listening is not checked it out yet. But after this episode, wait, told this move finish. Of course founded, yes, but he had a lie Wang on and she was saying how she said Multiple Netflix specials and she was saying how she still doesn't know how they've done because Netflix woke tell her her own for her own special, like how many people have watched it? That's mindblowing, which is, yeah, baffling. She says, she's yes, he's like, I assume it was a success because I've gotten you know, I've got to do more than one. But sure she doesn't know, which is like really crazy to me, very odd right, like it did. It doesn't make sense, I guess, to us as Creati as we want answers, we want feedback, you know, but maybe that's not something they're into, I don't know. And immediate feedback to the media exactly, you know. So someone was interested in self publishing, would you, if you had to pick between the two, would you or would you recommend a third a third option for how they go about getting their book out to the world? Old Yeah, I mean I think self publishing is great if you have the means, but I would say only do it if you had a very clear plan and how you wanted to market it, because self publishing is great for having that total freedom. And even if because they offer editing service, so you're still getting the the services you need to make sure your book is tight. But beyond that you want to make sure you can market it and sell it. So I'd say self publishing is great for that. And then the other way you can do it, obviously, is through the kindle unlimited, which is all you though. So you have to make sure you're on top of your editing and making sure your cover looks good and making sure you've got all your you know, everything is in great shape and you submit it. But the third option is obviously going to be the traditional way where you're submitting query letters to agents and you're saying hey, you know, this is my work, check out what I can...

...do. You know, do you want to publish me? That's still maybe, I don't know. To me, in my head that's still the way to keep pursuing it because they have the best means to promote your work. Right is the big houses and I think to that's a that's an interesting kind of I guess happy medium medium, but I think back in you know, twenty thirty years ago it was just those traditional big five publishers, but now there's so many small all our publishers popping up all throughout the country really throughout the world that are a lot more focused, you know, maybe it's a specific like sci fi, niche or something a lot more targeted, and there may be only reading forty or fifty, you know, proposals or manuscripts in a year and maybe only publishing like four or five books. But they they can provide that sort of like you were saying, like they marketing support and just the kind of like overall guidance that I think it is tough for a lot of writers to know off the Bat, since they've done it before and they have that experience that they can hopefully, if they're a good publisher, share with you. You're absolutely right, and that's the challenge, man is is is getting you know, I even still query. I'm always hashtagging on Linkedin. I'm always hashtagging anything I post to literary agents, and that's what the simple, you know, the hope that they're going to see it and say, okay, let's talk to this guy right because at the end of the day, they have you always want to surround yourself with the most, you know, talented people or whatever the case, you know, the people that can help you get to where you need to get to and that's the reality. Love it. Love it. Well, Eric, you're almost off the hook, but like to end every episode with a top three. So I would like, I think, since medium is where we met, I would let's go back to that for our top three. So what are the top three? And you can you can get a little ethereal with this if you need to, but what are the top three things that make for a good medium post? I think, as much as I hate to admit, this, is the title on. The reason I say hey, to admit is because we're basically prostituting ourselves to get you to read my story. Right, I'd say that's huge. It really is. But that comes with a bit of a caveat, and the Caviat I said, if your story is not good at the writing isn't good, it doesn't matter what you type. Is your title. I'm going to I'm going to dip out of there as soon as I start reading. Right. So for me it starts with great writing, it truly does, whether and it doesn't matter your topic, because I have people I follow, like I said earlier, this girl called Tracy on fire. I don't know if you're familiar with there, just fantastic, but all she writes is this really naughty, you know writing, but I'm like intrigue because it's well written, right. And then, of course,...

August Birch, who always has something so positive to say about the about the writing game and how we promote ourselves. But the writing is really good. Yourself, I latched onto you because of your your sense of humor aligned with my sense of humor. But again, it starts with good writing. Right after that it's going to be that title, and then it's really promoting yourself in facebook groups that are related to medium. I say is really the strong third pillar of what we have to do to be successful on medium is really engaging with the audience, reading other people's work and commenting as often as you can innocen see your way, because you don't want to just comment to comment, but you know when you genuinely like something common on it. I think those are really three strong things to keep in mind. Yeah, I really like the clarification and not just comment like just for the heck of it and to actually enjoy it, which it's so interesting to see how facebook groups are like kind of the main way a lot of people are using facebook now. I remember them as being like, you know, when facebook was first getting started, I was like, Oh, this is a place for like me and my five friends to share like really terrible jokes and like stupid pictures, since the Internet, yes, just getting started back then. BED's. Yeah, now it's just like a resource for anything. Like there's so many. I was doing a sweep of facebook groups the other day because I was like I remembered joining something that I honestly don't even remember what it was about. It something basketball related, where I was like, I feel like I was in some really obscure basketball group and was trying to find it. was just going through all the groups that I've joined over the years. I was like I need to do some kind of sweep out of this. I love that and it's yeah, it's just baffling whatever. That is fantastic. But now they they are really effective right, especially as creatives, you can find a group or anything. I have one for medium, I've many for medium, I have some for vocal, which is another platform. I have some for, you know, other groups that I'm interested in, but they're all writing related. They're so helpful and so positive. So I think that's a really good thing and it's super interesting too. Like for I think for writing and any kind of like running sort of groups are the two where it's very non self promotional. It's very much about like sharing resources and being helpful and educational, whereas some other groups where people are trying to promote step. I mean I'm in some podcast groups and there are some good resources in there too, but a lot of times people are like, Hey, you know, like for like or like subscriber, subscribe, and I'm like it's kind of shady, right. Yeah, I'm like, I feel yeah, I feel a little. I agree with you, and that's so interesting because the the health industry is so big. So when you said running, you're talking about physically...

...running, right. Yes, yeah, so you're right. When they talk about that, it's always telpful tips and that's so cool that you mentioned that, because that's so true and I think that's so cool. Yeah, you just got to find the community that that works for you and that's correct. They won't steer you wrong. Love it fantastic, Eric. Thank you so much for hopping on here. This was absolutely I really appreciate this, of course. Yeah, thank you for reaching out. Absolutely soaking connections. If people want to find you online if they want to say hey, on medium, if they want to check out your book, where can they find you? They can find me at medium under Eric Arosela. R I see see Ara Sela. That also happens to be my home, my website, Eric Carouselacom, and then, of course on vocal under Eric Carousella, and then on coffee house writers as Eric Carousla as well. So any of those spots and of course on facebook I'm also Eric Carosella. So very easy to find me, that's for sure. Love that consistent branding right. I mean that's my name, Jelly. This is so cool awesome. Thanks again, Eric. Always love it. And of course we got to end with the corny jokes. Why? Okay, a writing themed one. Did you hear about the writer who became a Baker? They say he makes excellent synonym rolls. Good after that was a good one. Thank you for your man hey, it took me a second, but that's a good joke. I'd like it. I'm not dad, so I'm going to tell dad jokes, and that's the dad joke.

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