Good People, Cool Things
Good People, Cool Things

Episode 45 · 1 year ago

How to Grow Your Business with Zack Hurley, Indie Source

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

No matter where you’re at on your entrepreneurial journey, you’re likely thinking about business growth. Zack Hurley, founder of apparel manufacturing company Indie Source, knows all about that — he grew his company from $788,000 to $2.3 million in just two years, and is on track to reach $5 million this year — all while maintaining a bootstrapped approach. 

Indie Source has tackled the outdated apparel industry and turned it on its head by offering entrepreneurs a way to get access to the insiders. Zack, along with co-founder Jesse Dombrowiak, started the firm to help designers get access to apparel supply chains, which is a HUGELY monolithic industry. 

Zack and Indie Source have worked with tons of celebrities, from Khloe Kardashian to NBA player Kareem Rush. He’s appeared on an episode of The Real Housewives of OC and was even asked to have his own reality show. Indie Source made the Forbes 30 Under 30 list in 2018 and is still kicking butt today. Indie Source has worked with more than 500 entrepreneurs and brands to make apparel dreams come true.

Welcome to good people, cool things, the podcast featuring conversations with entrepreneurs, writers, musicians and other creatives.I'm your host, Joe We held, and today's guest is Zach Hurley,Co founder of Indie source, a full package clothing manufacturer that helps brands develop, manufacture and market so you can take your concept and turn it into yourcollection. We're talking about all different kinds of cool stuff here. How Zachgot started with indie source, how he has worked to help grow the brand, the importance of online and digital and any kind of business plan, andhe has perhaps my favorite acronym for growing a business that I've ever heard.So you'll have to stick around to hear that, because it's pretty fantastic.If you'd like to get in touch with good people cool things, you cando so via email at Joey at good people cool thingscom or on facebook,twitter or Instagram at GPCT podcast. You can also support the show by checkingout the shop pick up a Mug, some Wal Art, a Nice Hoodieto keep cozy in these cold winter months. Whatever you got, it will befantastic. For now, let's hop into the conversation with Zach. I'dlove to hear your elevator pitch, who you are, who indie source is, but I'd also like to hear, as you're giving this pitch, whatkind of elevator are we on? The pitch for Indie source is that wepower the new generation of sustainable fashion brands and we help entrepreneurs to create thesebrands and be successful. We're on one of those really cool elevators that's sortof like a you know, like that. What's that? That roller coaster thatshoots you straight out? Yeah, the not the giant drop. That'sthe opposite, the like Dr is it the Dr Doom Roller Coaster? Theseducks are eyes. Yeah, I don't know. I've been on it's justlike it just like shoots you straight up into the air and then you falldown. I guess it could be the other way to where you just goup and then you just drop. Maybe that's more appropriate. Fantastic, fantasticit. I don't I'm trying to think if I've actually been on the giantdrop. I feel like every time for a long time I was like thatdoesn't sound appealing at all, and then I finally was like, you knowwhat, I'll give it a shot and then it was like down for maintenanceor something. So I don't know, but I like when it's faster,when it just makes you drop a lot faster than you could possibly fall fromgravity. That's like like okay, they I want to do that. ThingsI can't recreate fight by like tripping of my own feet and sin fall anddown. Yeah, right. Well, so how did INDIE SOURCE COME TOBE? Like the was there? was there an Aha moment? We're like, okay, I got to turn this into a business, or has itjust always kind of been a passion of yours that you took some action on? Now it was sort of an Ah huh moment, but I'll moment's kindof end up being. They're more incremental, you know. I mean it's morelike that's interesting, why is that...

...like that? And he started askingpeople questions. Oh Wow, oh, oh, damn, there, Icould really do some damage there if I change this or I did that.So it's I would say it's like just an instant, though, and that'sgot sort of what people are focusing on when I say Aha moment. It'slike sort of sequence of Aha moments, I would say, and it startedwith, you know, I found myself with my buddy from college and wehad we were somewhat in the fashion business, but we were sort of we werein the in La Sorry sees me, in the Las Vegas Trade Show andwe we were somewhat dabbling in the in the manufacturing space, but mostlyjust sort of like, you know, helping sell brands into helping a brandget into the United States. And the Aha moment sort of came from acollection of conversations that we had with individual fashion entrepreneurs that were like at theshow, who all sort of told us the same thing, which is that, like they had a lot of issues with their manufacturing, that they couldn'tget the products that they wanted, that the quality was kind of crappy,that everything was sort of the same and like that was it and it wasreally all we initially got and it's so we sort of had a semblance ofan idea that the industry was kind of messed up and I had, youknow, a marketing background. I'd seen a lot of businesses sort of startto come to if online and I just saw it. I just realize,like man, there's can be a lot of new brands popping up that aregoing to be able to sell directly to their consumers, but like the partwhere they get it made is really kind of gross. It's like not setup for them to succeed, and so that was the disconnect cross like,okay, you have tons of demand on one side and lots of people wantto make new products, and then you have an extremely antiquated and fragmented productionand supply chain, and those two like can't exist for very long. Therehas to be a way to bring one up to speed so it can supportthe other, and so that that was like the General Aha moment. Ithink that happened over sometime. Awesome. Can you kind of dive into thethe antiquated side of supply chain, because I think it is, like I'vecertainly heard that before, but I feel like people don't fully understand like howhow outdated a lot of supply train stuff is. Yeah, it's totally ridiculous. I mean, and that's part of the problem, is when you havepeople that think something is more high tech than it is, then it alsocreates issues. But many manufacturers fabric companies, so they're all working separately. Soyou have, if you think about like a garment that you're wearing,like I'm wearing this jacket right now, and on this jacket there's lots ofdifferent things. There's fabric, there's there's trim buttons, there's elastic, there'slabels. All these different pieces of anything that we wear are sold by avendor who sells that one thing or similar things, right, and so you'restarting off with this system where there's tons...

...and tons and tons of people thatare selling these one things and a lot of times these vendors have been doingthis for like decades and decades, and so they're not using technology. Alot of them are using facts machines. When I started our company, wewere like one of the only manufacturers with a website, and so it's justeverything about it is set up from the old model. Now, what doesthat mean for entrepreneurs that might be listening to this? It means that theyou know, getting into it is difficult because there's high minimums, because thesecompanies have large overhead. It means that they're not using the latest technology,which means that they're not efficient and there isn't clear process on how to bringsomething to life. So if you're trying to get something started, a lotof times preferred this. So I went to China and I got ripped offor the quality was bad or this, that and the other thing. Anda lot of that has to do with the fact that supply chain is antiquatedand whether you're in the US or overseas, in China or some other country,there's challenges, and so that's to me. Is means that there's alot of opportunity for growth and that's where we're focusing on. Just had abrief flashback to I studied abroad in China and Nice, and I'm six foottwo and have size like thirteen, fourteen, shoot, depending on the wow themake, and in China that's about like. I mean they use kindof the European and Asian measurement, so it's more like in the s.But I remember laughed out of a store when I asked if they had anythat was in my my equivalent size. Over the type just like me,shack, that's that's weight too big. Yeah, felt briefly like a basketballcelebrity. Oh yeah, that's great stuff. So as you're sourcing these different fabrics, what are kind of the top things that you're looking for? Well, we're sourcing on behalf of the brands that were working for. In thosebrands have their vision of what they want to create, right. And soin some cases we're working with somebody that's making kids line, someone else ismaking amend's, you know, contemporary line, someone else just doing swim where someoneelse is making an invention of a product that just literally doesn't exist.So each of these people have ideas for physical products that they want to makeand it starts with understanding the component try or the think things that that we'regoing to use to cut and so together to make the product. And sowe the makeup of our team is fashion experts and people that have done thisfor a really long time. So we know what to ask and what tolook for. And so, for example, we're looking for a fabric, wedon't just say hey, I want cotton right, could have cotton.We have to think about the various types of cotton. We have to thinkabout the weight of fabric, we have to think about whether it's a Jerseycotton or it's a woven cotton. We'd think about the the other foundational aspectsto like the fibers itself. We've about the width of the fabric, we'vethink about the color of the fabric. So there's like ten things that wehave to actually ask every vendor when we're...

...sourcing something, and that's like,sort of, like a sort of like gives you an example of how muchmore there is to know. And one of the things that we try todo is like educate our brands around what these things are, because until there'seducation around it, it's just sort of confusing and again, it's archaic.So knowing how to navigate that is a big piece of what we do andthat's why we say, you know, we're not just a manufacture where we'resupporting and creating ecosystem for new entrepreneurs to become educated and to be successful intheir ventures. Would you say that most brands are coming to you from aplace of like zero knowledge in this space, or is it like pretty minimal orsome super advanced, or how does that kind of break you look atthe total que? Yeah, if you look at the total, the sheervolume, yes, the majority have no fashion experience at all, because there'sa lot right, there's a lot of people with an IEMA. Everybody hasan idea for some sort of product right, for some fashion item for these.You know, you see you're like, yeah, I wish, I wishthese wet pants were like a little thicker, or wish I could dothis, or which is jacket? Would you know? Allow me to putmy phone here? So everybody's had ideas, which means a majority of leads thatcome in are people that don't have that experience. Of course we workwith a plenty of people that have fashion degrees and we work with established brandsas well, but the vast majority of people are just somebody with an ideain the middle of a country and they just want to make it happen.Man. They're like, you know what, I'm sitting at home, it's coronel, you know, it's covid time, and I gotta just like take actionon this idea, because now I can sell direct to consumer. Idon't have to be out, you know, physically at a at a pop up, or I don't have to sell to the retail stores, I canjust sell online. So it's a good time for brands that know who theircustomers are to bring the products to market for them good deal and and youmentioned working with some more established brands that include some celebrities as well. AndI was I was teased a story, but I have very little info aboutyour relationship with will wayne and how it involved throwing product over fences. Canyou can you expect upon that some more, because it sounds fantastic. Oh,I don't think that wasn't even me, but I think somebody from my companylike got a call from like from like their agent or and like hehad to go to some addressed and like feed him the product over a fence. I'm not really sure what happened, but anyways we got product in LittleWay and and I don't really remember like what he had to go through,but I remember that it was like a funny story and he he basically likedid not plan to do that that day and he was pleasantly surprised that hehad a funny story about it. It sounds like if I were to predictthat to happen with any celebrity like lowyn would certainly be at the top ofthe list. That just sounds like a normal, normal day for him.Yeah, exactly. Now you mentioned a couple of times how the Internet andkind of the digital first sort of world...

...that we're in now has really helpedwith a lot of these entrepreneurs, they are able to sell directly to customers. But of course, the Internet being a vast place is, it's stillpresent some challenges. So how can these brands kind of, you know,reach their customers in the new digital formats instead of maybe setting up a popup shop or going to physical events like that? I mean, you gotto find them where they're at, where their attention is. So for everybodythat's going to be somewhat different. Obviously, like the simplest way to reach peopleare that on the the social media platforms where people are facebook, instagram, Tick Tock. So that's that's a great place to start if you are, you know, trying to get your product in front of people. It'sa really phenomenal way to get data and very, very, very fast youstart showing your ads to people, you can see exactly because click, youknow what type of people are clicking on with their demographics. Are you targetpretty broad if you're not sure, and if you are sure, it's adifferent approach. But for a lot of people that are sort of new,they're have a more of a broad targeting strategy in their marketing and then fromthere they start to see who's most receptive to the product that they're selling andthen they hone in from there. Do you have a favorite of the platforms? I mean in terms of data? Facebook, you know, running facebookads is the best in less you're doing, unless you have a product that peopleare directly searching for. Right if somebody's searching, if it's intent drivenand you can be found for that, then obviously Google is the best.So for me, for example, like it's better for me to even thoughI love I do both. You know, two tons of ads on facebook too, but you know, finding people who are looking for clothing manufacturers onGoogle, like that's how a lot of people find us, organic and throughads. But then I also do facebook, which is sort of just like brandingthe idea behind, you know, the company and how we can createyour dream and turn into reality. So it's the same kind of thing fora brand if they need to just determine where their customers are and to createa strategy around getting in front of them, which essentially just gets them to clickon the page so that then they can go to your website where you'veyou know, you've put those products there, you have the good photography and thenit's sort of just math from there. It's just what percentage of the peopleclicked on the on the AD? What percentage of those people that wenton door site actually bought something? It's just looking at the numbers from there. And if this is not something that you do or have experience in orscared of, there's plenty of people that we know. We support a lotof our brands with marketing and things like that, but it's there are alot of other marketers out there that can support you if that's not your numberone thing. But if you are starting something, you do have to be, you know, putting yourself out there one way or another. Yeah,I think that's a very good point of you have to meet your customers wherethey are and connect with them on the...

...platforms that they're most comfortable using,because, I mean, I think it's probably not groundbreaking to say that peoplelike to be comfortable and they you know, if they have to go somewhere elsethat's kind of out of their normal path of I was going to sayonline destructure. That sounds more, sounds worse than I wanted it to be, but they're you know, they're normal online routine like if they have togo super far away beyond clicking through something that they see on facebook, onGoogle, whatever it may be. And so you do kind of have todive in there, even though it's terrifying. I've tried to hold off being ontick tock for forever, but I mean a lot of people are onthere, so getting it on them and that's where they are because again,you look at the ages and depending on your customer, you're going to you'regoing to want to be in the place where they are. So so,yeah, it's you have to be agnostic about the platform. I think youhave to really just think about, okay, well, where the people that Iwant to talk to? Are? They on facebook, really on Instagram, and the tick tock really somewhere else, and then find them there. Absolutely, and I think it's interesting to see kind of to how how someof these platforms thrive and others don't. Like Tick Tock. I remember whenit first came out, I'm like this is vine, like fine, fine, collapsed real quickly, but tick tock is booming and I mean I thinkpart of that is user interface. Part of that, of course, it'sjust word of mouth, people saying hey, this is, you know, there'sa nicer platform, like let's let's get on it. And so,yeah, it's it is. Yeah, I mean it's just it was sucha different time, though, when vine was popular. Is So long ago. Like I think the time it wents, which something takes off, is reallyimportant to the timing. Yeah, for sure. So so, yeah, you can see and the money, how much money is backed right,also very helpful, and I think that actually might tie in nicely to anotherquestion that I want to kind of chat about is, and you can kindof talk both with the brands that you're working with and with indie source asa whole. But when people are starting a business, I think it canbe natural that everything is a shining object right, like you see one thing, you're like, I gotta go after that, and then something else comesfrom the other side you're like wait, no, I gotta go after that, and it's very easy to spread yourself super thin. So what are someof the top things as you're growing a business that you should focus on?Is You're growing at business, you need people, right. So this isunder the assumption that you're going to be hiring, and you know you needto hire some point to expand, right whether you hire them as full timeor you hire them as contractor or you bring on agencies, it doesn't reallymatter. So I was thinking about this the other day and I was tryingto make it simple because there's a lot of points and the best, thebest way I can synthesize, I think what is critical when you're growing abusiness can be summed up in red man, red man. Okay, so thefirst step is you have to find the right people. I've learned thehard way. I've hired people that are...

...like not so great, you know, because they're they were cheaper and, Oh my God, like, ifI could give any advice to anybody, it's just find good people and don'ttry to really cheep out on on what you pay them. Obviously there's alimit to how much you can pay them. So it's not always just about,like, you know, paying them any amount, but find the rightpeople, pay them what they're worth and then, like that's you've literally justlike eliminated like most of the problems that you would have had. So that'sfirst right people. Second thing he is enroll. You got to get themsuper stoked on your idea and your vision. You have to enroll them in thething that you're doing so that they they got the juice to they're excitedabout it and they're like, oh, man, like I get where whatwe're doing and why we're making a difference. That's enrolling them. You've in checkingwith them, have them pitch you on your business. Number three isthe next is d delegate. So you have to this is something that everyentrepreneur, like, has issues with. Right delegation. ME. Okay,so I want to go in the morning. What do I do? So thequestion is what? For me is always what can I get rid of? What can I pass off to other people so that they can be empoweredto do those things that I need to get done? I always try tosay to also to my team now, because I have a I have managersunderneath me and my company. So I'm like, I need them to bedelegating more, not less. I'm not like trying to put more on theMANAGEOM manager. Need to be delegating. So who can you delegate these differentthings too? That will get you to your goal. Delegation is critical.So now we have read. The next piece is man so am is formeasure. Delegating is completely worthless. If you don't measure the thing. Andso some people call them Kpis, but essentially just you have to find ametric or some way to measure whether the thing that you gave somebody in termsof a task or a project, whether it was done to the standard thatyou want it to be done. So we can come up with lots ofexamples of that. But make it measurable and make it easy to tell whetherthey did it or not. A is accountable. So you've delegated it,you've measured it, and then the third part is you know that they didit or they didn't do it. They didn't, you have to hold themaccountable for it. And so this is another thing that I often see.People will not hold the person that they're they're hiring accountable to the measure thatthey create for them. And so what lot. You sort of check in, here's what you aim to do this week, here's what you did,here's what you aim to do this week, here is what you did. Doit in smaller increments and intervals in the beginning, because if you don't, then you sort of like drag things out and you might realize, Oh, this person you know isn't doing it right and I now haven't talked tothem in a month. So that's accountability. And then N is never deviate.Like just keep focusing on these things over and over and over again,and you will be able to get your business of the next level. AndI think this the reason I wanted to bring this up is because a lotof the people that I work with are...

Solo entrepreneurs. It's just one personand you know, there's only so much you can do if you're one person. You only have so much time and ability, and so this is away to think about getting to the next level where you have a team ofpeople working for you and with you to create the vision that you want.I could there's like I mean, I can't do any of the things thatI want to do without my team. I'm like worthless without them. Youknow what I mean? And I think most entrepreneurs should think that way,to like build a team that's better than you, that knows things that youdon't and can ultimately, whether that's providing a service or product or whatever youwant, to build a team around you that can offer something awesome to theworld, and so this is the best way that I've sort of synthesized howto make that happen. Yeah, so that's red men love it. Methodman, probably a little jealous, but yeah, I know, Love themall. Right, still great, still great. Yeah, I especially likethe the delegation aspect and kind of your mindset of like what can I passon and like it's yeah, it's not meant to give other people more workbecause you don't want to do it. It's to give them the opportunity toget something done that's going to be better for everyone, so that you canalso focus on something to get that done. And it's it's certainly a different,cool thing. I know I have trouble with delegating pretty regularly, Iwould say, where I'm just like I could just knock this out, butit's like no, like give someone else the opportunity to do it and,yeah, it'll look, probably going to be better. Yeah, like whatkinds of things do you try to delegate or have trouble with? Sometimes it'sthings like, you know, reaching out to other podcast if we're trying toget guests on, or you know like quick little like briefing books or somethingwhere I'm like, I kind of know this person already, like I canI can knock this out real quick, when in some cases it's like no, this is giving someone a chance that maybe hasn't done this before to gettheir feet wet with it and and maybe they'll create a way that is moreefficient or, you know, is easier to digest for whoever's going to belooking at it. And so I think it can be easy to kind ofget tunnel vision a little bit too of just like Oh, I've done thisbefore, I know how it's done, etc. And then to have someoneelse kind of give it a look with fresh eyes or like Oh, actually, that that way is much better. Yeah, yeah, that's a goodpoint. Sometimes it's just other people can do it better than you can't evenrealize it. Yeah, that I didn't think about that one. That's true, though, and I think it's especially true in covid times too, wherewe're at home all the time, like very easy to kind of lose sanity, I guess, for lack of a better words sometimes, and so sometimesyou know, taken a step away and then coming back and help, butother times you do just need that the second set of eyes on it yeah, exactly. You. It's hard.

It must be really hard during thistime to not have other people you know, and so I think building a littleteam is really, really critical. There's a lot of ways to dothat, even with limited resources. But, you know, like getting some otherpeople knocking stuff out for you, and you want to if you're theowner of the company, you want to be focusing on the thing that likereally only you can do. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Andeven, like, even if you're not at a place to build out awhole team like like you're saying, there's ways you can get other people's inputand and kind of have like your trusted circle there. Even, yeah,if you're not hiring like forty people at once. Yeah, yeah, I'vehired friends. And also, it's a crazy stuff. I mean mine,you know, near my partner, we started this company with no money andwe were living on a boat in the Marina. So, like it's notlike I'm coming from a place, although I had, I invested a hundredthousand dollars and then I, you know, got this whole team up. Likeno, it's scrappy from day one. Let's talk a little more about livingon a boat. What was that like? You know, it justrocks back and forth a little bit, but not too much. People arelike you get sick like now. You don't get sick. It just makesyou fall asleep fast there. Yeah, I guess if you're not going intotreacherous waters, you're well, you're in a sweat. Yeah, so it'sjust stead of you just like rocks you. It's amazing. Highly recommend live boardboat living. That does sound very do thing. I do get sosick easily, but gentle rocking I can do. It's just like gets onher. You don't ever have to even leave, you don't have to takethe boat out, you just lit, you know, just pect enjoy yourtime on it. Perfect. Perfect. One other thing that that you've doneis kind of pivot a little bit. I hate saying pivot. It justreminds me of Ross from friends, who I don't know if you watched friends, but I used to. Yeah, look that he's he's I'm sorry Ihave made someone upset the other day because I said Ross is easily the worstof the friends and she was all, no, he just gets a badrap and I was like it does get it better, maybe, but he'salso, he also is the worst, but it's fine, they're they allhave their their highs and lows. It's fun. But the during the pandemic, obviously face masks became a super high in demand and still still our highend demand product, and that was something that you added to the the indiesource catalog for lack, I don't know if that's the right term, butthe indy source catalog. And Yeah, I mean we didn't. The thingis, we didn't really even have a catalog before this. So I wasn'tselling any products direct consumer before this. It was just purely away for usto keep going and honestly, I don't even know it's going to happen.It could, it might end up happening again to to shutdowns and stuff likethat. But yeah, we pivoted to face masks. We were we wereearly, so we were able to provide a lot of masks to people before, you know, trying to came in and started spread the market with them. But yeah, we're still selling them and we put together like a reallyawesome mask. We made sure that it...

...was like effective actually, and andyeah, have a bunch of different designs and have sold them. You know, tens of thousands of them. We're donated tens of thousands of them.In the beginning was really important because service workers and people at hospitals like justdidn't have any PPE so, you know, rolling up to a kids hospital andlike donating a ton of masks was like really needed at that time,you know, and I also like, like you go to restaurants and likethe people. It was crazy at that time, like nobody was wearing masks. So, yeah, we did a bio one, donate one. Keptour employees working and it was a definitely a win win win and allowed usto keep kind of like stable throughout those crazy initial months. Yeah, that'sawesome and thank you for making them actually effective. I feel like that whenit first, you know, when masks first started kind of becoming mandated andit's like hey, you need a mask to get places. I certain Isaw lots of different things pop up where it was just kind of like no, this might not be that good, like it's real thin and right,yeah, not getting the job done exactly. A lot of that, for sure. A lot of shirts over your face. Do you have a favoriteamong the designs? Um I like the I mean I love the the USAones it's like, you know, like red, white and Blue Stars,and then we have some cool, like geometric shape ones that we also havea denim one that I like a lot. Yeah, I mean I got allof them. So cop one on Andy Source. We're doing a buyone, get one by one, get one, give one right now onthe site because we have this imagery and everything was ethically made in Los Angelesby my team. So none of this is important. Awesome. Yeah,everyone get a mask. They are they are very stylish. I have tosay I thank you. Having worn masks with designs and masks without designs,you certainly get a lot more compliments and people are just, I think,generally, a little more nicer to you when you have a fun mask.I don't know, this is a very small sample size, but I feellike I think you're right coming up and be like hey, that's a coolmask. And if it's just like a generic I have a generic red oneas well, and people are just like Oh, yeah, I exactly likeyou can gotta get a coold just just get a cute one, just likemix it up a little bit. Yeah, or stylish one that matches your outfit. Oh that's I still need to work on that. I all right, I'll sell you at Man. Thank you. Thank you. Snap mea picture of whatever you're wearing and also I need the appropriate color mask.Fantastic, fantastic. I know we've got we've got a denim day coming upwithin our company and in the next month or so, so maybe there's somethingthat that pairs well with a gene jacket. Done, fabulous. All right,and I think that that Segue is pretty nicicely into the top three here, which would have been your top three...

...covid hobbies during this quarantine? HaHa. Well, my first, I should make this my first covid hobby, has been raising a child. So I had a davy literally like theday that California announced the pandemic. So I was like you know, andtrust me, we had been planning this, so it's not like you know,its just I did this. And so, yeah, he was bornread the end of February, and so I've been, you know, raisinglittle boys, which has been definitely a hobby and really, really fun.So that's number one. Number two is I've been growing sprouts because I don'thave a whole lot of like son for like real legit vegetables, but Ilove sprouts, so I have Broccoli sprouts, Alfile for sprouts, you know,just different things like that to keep you going and just like keep youhealthy. That's my number two and then my third covid hobby is I've beengrowing a pretty substantial beard, which you can't see right now because we're ona PODCAST, but I've been focusing on this for many months now and mygoal is to have the man bun on the top and a beard that's verylong on the bottom. So I've been working on that and it's it's agood hobby for me because it's very passive while I focus on growing my business. The passive hobbies are the greatest ones. So if you not shaved or gottena haircut since, I guess since having your child, not really know. I mean I did, I guess in the beginning. It's been atleast like five or six months. It probably like six months that I haven'tshaved and and I'm just shaving the sides of my hair and leaving the top. So I'm really working on that. It sounds impressive. We will haveto get a photo and we can can do leave the show tines. Yes, that sounds good. Yeah, because I definitely don't look like the picturethat you know, whatever, the headshot that we send out. I sawthat the other day. I was like, oh, that's they're going to bedisappointed when they see what I really look like. We'll do it beforeand after. It'll be okay, pravery wonderful for covid after Co Yeah,I commend you on sticking with it. I also went with the I'm notgoing to get a haircut or shave and I think it lasted about it waslonger than it should have been, like the I think the shaving was maybeafter about three months. It was just like disgustingly long. So I applaudyou for for keeping up with it. It's a coffee pill now you haveto take care of it. It's up to some degree. Once your housingwildlife in there, then it's maybe at the time to shave it. Soif you're not at that level yet, you're fun. Yeah, yeah,keep a gun. I like when people have it to well, good deal, Zach. Thank you so much for hopping on the PODCAST. If peoplewant to pick up a mask, they want to learn more about indie sourceat all, that you do. How...

...can they get in touch? Cool. Yeah, Indie sourcecom we have our instagram is indie underscore source. Wehave youtube if you're interested in starting your online. Is a lot of longform content on there that I think really can get you into it a littlebit deeper so you can understand like what what really goes on, and theinstagram stuff is good too. We'll be putting out some more educational content herepretty soon. And Yeah, you can call the the number on the site. I got a whole team that can answer your questions, sort of facilitatethe process for you and tell you how it goes and we're excited to learnabout whatever ideas you have. Fantastic, looking forward to it. Zach curlyfrom indie source. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat andlet's end with a Corny joke, like we always do. I've been triedto make it slightly clothing themed. I'm sure you've probably heard this, butI tried buying some camouflage pants the other day. I couldn't find them.Good after today, people, I'm amazing. I love that. That's good.That's good, that's legitimately good.

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