Good People, Cool Things
Good People, Cool Things

Episode 45 · 1 year ago

45: How to Grow Your Business with Zack Hurley, Indie Source

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

No matter where you’re at on your entrepreneurial journey, you’re likely thinking about business growth. Zack Hurley, founder of apparel manufacturing company Indie Source, knows all about that — he grew his company from $788,000 to $2.3 million in just two years, and is on track to reach $5 million this year — all while maintaining a bootstrapped approach. 

Indie Source has tackled the outdated apparel industry and turned it on its head by offering entrepreneurs a way to get access to the insiders. Zack, along with co-founder Jesse Dombrowiak, started the firm to help designers get access to apparel supply chains, which is a HUGELY monolithic industry. 

Zack and Indie Source have worked with tons of celebrities, from Khloe Kardashian to NBA player Kareem Rush. He’s appeared on an episode of The Real Housewives of OC and was even asked to have his own reality show. Indie Source made the Forbes 30 Under 30 list in 2018 and is still kicking butt today. Indie Source has worked with more than 500 entrepreneurs and brands to make apparel dreams come true.

Welcome to good people, cool things, the podcast featuring conversations with entrepreneurs, writers, musicians and other creatives. I'm your host, Joe We held, and today's guest is Zach Hurley, Co founder of Indie source, a full package clothing manufacturer that helps brands develop, manufacture and market so you can take your concept and turn it into your collection. We're talking about all different kinds of cool stuff here. How Zach got started with indie source, how he has worked to help grow the brand, the importance of online and digital and any kind of business plan, and he has perhaps my favorite acronym for growing a business that I've ever heard. So you'll have to stick around to hear that, because it's pretty fantastic. If you'd like to get in touch with good people cool things, you can do so via email at Joey at good people cool thingscom or on facebook, twitter or Instagram at GPCT podcast. You can also support the show by checking out the shop pick up a Mug, some Wal Art, a Nice Hoodie to keep cozy in these cold winter months. Whatever you got, it will be fantastic. For now, let's hop into the conversation with Zach. I'd love to hear your elevator pitch, who you are, who indie source is, but I'd also like to hear, as you're giving this pitch, what kind of elevator are we on? The pitch for Indie source is that we power the new generation of sustainable fashion brands and we help entrepreneurs to create these brands and be successful. We're on one of those really cool elevators that's sort of like a you know, like that. What's that? That roller coaster that shoots you straight out? Yeah, the not the giant drop. That's the opposite, the like Dr is it the Dr Doom Roller Coaster? These ducks are eyes. Yeah, I don't know. I've been on it's just like it just like shoots you straight up into the air and then you fall down. I guess it could be the other way to where you just go up and then you just drop. Maybe that's more appropriate. Fantastic, fantastic it. I don't I'm trying to think if I've actually been on the giant drop. I feel like every time for a long time I was like that doesn't sound appealing at all, and then I finally was like, you know what, I'll give it a shot and then it was like down for maintenance or something. So I don't know, but I like when it's faster, when it just makes you drop a lot faster than you could possibly fall from gravity. That's like like okay, they I want to do that. Things I can't recreate fight by like tripping of my own feet and sin fall and down. Yeah, right. Well, so how did INDIE SOURCE COME TO BE? Like the was there? was there an Aha moment? We're like, okay, I got to turn this into a business, or has it just always kind of been a passion of yours that you took some action on? Now it was sort of an Ah huh moment, but I'll moment's kind of end up being. They're more incremental, you know. I mean it's more like that's interesting, why is that...

...like that? And he started asking people questions. Oh Wow, oh, oh, damn, there, I could really do some damage there if I change this or I did that. So it's I would say it's like just an instant, though, and that's got sort of what people are focusing on when I say Aha moment. It's like sort of sequence of Aha moments, I would say, and it started with, you know, I found myself with my buddy from college and we had we were somewhat in the fashion business, but we were sort of we were in the in La Sorry sees me, in the Las Vegas Trade Show and we we were somewhat dabbling in the in the manufacturing space, but mostly just sort of like, you know, helping sell brands into helping a brand get into the United States. And the Aha moment sort of came from a collection of conversations that we had with individual fashion entrepreneurs that were like at the show, who all sort of told us the same thing, which is that, like they had a lot of issues with their manufacturing, that they couldn't get the products that they wanted, that the quality was kind of crappy, that everything was sort of the same and like that was it and it was really all we initially got and it's so we sort of had a semblance of an idea that the industry was kind of messed up and I had, you know, a marketing background. I'd seen a lot of businesses sort of start to come to if online and I just saw it. I just realize, like man, there's can be a lot of new brands popping up that are going to be able to sell directly to their consumers, but like the part where they get it made is really kind of gross. It's like not set up for them to succeed, and so that was the disconnect cross like, okay, you have tons of demand on one side and lots of people want to make new products, and then you have an extremely antiquated and fragmented production and supply chain, and those two like can't exist for very long. There has to be a way to bring one up to speed so it can support the other, and so that that was like the General Aha moment. I think that happened over sometime. Awesome. Can you kind of dive into the the antiquated side of supply chain, because I think it is, like I've certainly heard that before, but I feel like people don't fully understand like how how outdated a lot of supply train stuff is. Yeah, it's totally ridiculous. I mean, and that's part of the problem, is when you have people that think something is more high tech than it is, then it also creates issues. But many manufacturers fabric companies, so they're all working separately. So you have, if you think about like a garment that you're wearing, like I'm wearing this jacket right now, and on this jacket there's lots of different things. There's fabric, there's there's trim buttons, there's elastic, there's labels. All these different pieces of anything that we wear are sold by a vendor who sells that one thing or similar things, right, and so you're starting off with this system where there's tons...

...and tons and tons of people that are selling these one things and a lot of times these vendors have been doing this for like decades and decades, and so they're not using technology. A lot of them are using facts machines. When I started our company, we were like one of the only manufacturers with a website, and so it's just everything about it is set up from the old model. Now, what does that mean for entrepreneurs that might be listening to this? It means that the you know, getting into it is difficult because there's high minimums, because these companies have large overhead. It means that they're not using the latest technology, which means that they're not efficient and there isn't clear process on how to bring something to life. So if you're trying to get something started, a lot of times preferred this. So I went to China and I got ripped off or the quality was bad or this, that and the other thing. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that supply chain is antiquated and whether you're in the US or overseas, in China or some other country, there's challenges, and so that's to me. Is means that there's a lot of opportunity for growth and that's where we're focusing on. Just had a brief flashback to I studied abroad in China and Nice, and I'm six foot two and have size like thirteen, fourteen, shoot, depending on the wow the make, and in China that's about like. I mean they use kind of the European and Asian measurement, so it's more like in the s. But I remember laughed out of a store when I asked if they had any that was in my my equivalent size. Over the type just like me, shack, that's that's weight too big. Yeah, felt briefly like a basketball celebrity. Oh yeah, that's great stuff. So as you're sourcing these different fabrics, what are kind of the top things that you're looking for? Well, we're sourcing on behalf of the brands that were working for. In those brands have their vision of what they want to create, right. And so in some cases we're working with somebody that's making kids line, someone else is making amend's, you know, contemporary line, someone else just doing swim where someone else is making an invention of a product that just literally doesn't exist. So each of these people have ideas for physical products that they want to make and it starts with understanding the component try or the think things that that we're going to use to cut and so together to make the product. And so we the makeup of our team is fashion experts and people that have done this for a really long time. So we know what to ask and what to look for. And so, for example, we're looking for a fabric, we don't just say hey, I want cotton right, could have cotton. We have to think about the various types of cotton. We have to think about the weight of fabric, we have to think about whether it's a Jersey cotton or it's a woven cotton. We'd think about the the other foundational aspects to like the fibers itself. We've about the width of the fabric, we've think about the color of the fabric. So there's like ten things that we have to actually ask every vendor when we're...

...sourcing something, and that's like, sort of, like a sort of like gives you an example of how much more there is to know. And one of the things that we try to do is like educate our brands around what these things are, because until there's education around it, it's just sort of confusing and again, it's archaic. So knowing how to navigate that is a big piece of what we do and that's why we say, you know, we're not just a manufacture where we're supporting and creating ecosystem for new entrepreneurs to become educated and to be successful in their ventures. Would you say that most brands are coming to you from a place of like zero knowledge in this space, or is it like pretty minimal or some super advanced, or how does that kind of break you look at the total que? Yeah, if you look at the total, the sheer volume, yes, the majority have no fashion experience at all, because there's a lot right, there's a lot of people with an IEMA. Everybody has an idea for some sort of product right, for some fashion item for these. You know, you see you're like, yeah, I wish, I wish these wet pants were like a little thicker, or wish I could do this, or which is jacket? Would you know? Allow me to put my phone here? So everybody's had ideas, which means a majority of leads that come in are people that don't have that experience. Of course we work with a plenty of people that have fashion degrees and we work with established brands as well, but the vast majority of people are just somebody with an idea in the middle of a country and they just want to make it happen. Man. They're like, you know what, I'm sitting at home, it's coronel, you know, it's covid time, and I gotta just like take action on this idea, because now I can sell direct to consumer. I don't have to be out, you know, physically at a at a pop up, or I don't have to sell to the retail stores, I can just sell online. So it's a good time for brands that know who their customers are to bring the products to market for them good deal and and you mentioned working with some more established brands that include some celebrities as well. And I was I was teased a story, but I have very little info about your relationship with will wayne and how it involved throwing product over fences. Can you can you expect upon that some more, because it sounds fantastic. Oh, I don't think that wasn't even me, but I think somebody from my company like got a call from like from like their agent or and like he had to go to some addressed and like feed him the product over a fence. I'm not really sure what happened, but anyways we got product in Little Way and and I don't really remember like what he had to go through, but I remember that it was like a funny story and he he basically like did not plan to do that that day and he was pleasantly surprised that he had a funny story about it. It sounds like if I were to predict that to happen with any celebrity like lowyn would certainly be at the top of the list. That just sounds like a normal, normal day for him. Yeah, exactly. Now you mentioned a couple of times how the Internet and kind of the digital first sort of world...

...that we're in now has really helped with a lot of these entrepreneurs, they are able to sell directly to customers. But of course, the Internet being a vast place is, it's still present some challenges. So how can these brands kind of, you know, reach their customers in the new digital formats instead of maybe setting up a pop up shop or going to physical events like that? I mean, you got to find them where they're at, where their attention is. So for everybody that's going to be somewhat different. Obviously, like the simplest way to reach people are that on the the social media platforms where people are facebook, instagram, Tick Tock. So that's that's a great place to start if you are, you know, trying to get your product in front of people. It's a really phenomenal way to get data and very, very, very fast you start showing your ads to people, you can see exactly because click, you know what type of people are clicking on with their demographics. Are you target pretty broad if you're not sure, and if you are sure, it's a different approach. But for a lot of people that are sort of new, they're have a more of a broad targeting strategy in their marketing and then from there they start to see who's most receptive to the product that they're selling and then they hone in from there. Do you have a favorite of the platforms? I mean in terms of data? Facebook, you know, running facebook ads is the best in less you're doing, unless you have a product that people are directly searching for. Right if somebody's searching, if it's intent driven and you can be found for that, then obviously Google is the best. So for me, for example, like it's better for me to even though I love I do both. You know, two tons of ads on facebook too, but you know, finding people who are looking for clothing manufacturers on Google, like that's how a lot of people find us, organic and through ads. But then I also do facebook, which is sort of just like branding the idea behind, you know, the company and how we can create your dream and turn into reality. So it's the same kind of thing for a brand if they need to just determine where their customers are and to create a strategy around getting in front of them, which essentially just gets them to click on the page so that then they can go to your website where you've you know, you've put those products there, you have the good photography and then it's sort of just math from there. It's just what percentage of the people clicked on the on the AD? What percentage of those people that went on door site actually bought something? It's just looking at the numbers from there. And if this is not something that you do or have experience in or scared of, there's plenty of people that we know. We support a lot of our brands with marketing and things like that, but it's there are a lot of other marketers out there that can support you if that's not your number one thing. But if you are starting something, you do have to be, you know, putting yourself out there one way or another. Yeah, I think that's a very good point of you have to meet your customers where they are and connect with them on the...

...platforms that they're most comfortable using, because, I mean, I think it's probably not groundbreaking to say that people like to be comfortable and they you know, if they have to go somewhere else that's kind of out of their normal path of I was going to say online destructure. That sounds more, sounds worse than I wanted it to be, but they're you know, they're normal online routine like if they have to go super far away beyond clicking through something that they see on facebook, on Google, whatever it may be. And so you do kind of have to dive in there, even though it's terrifying. I've tried to hold off being on tick tock for forever, but I mean a lot of people are on there, so getting it on them and that's where they are because again, you look at the ages and depending on your customer, you're going to you're going to want to be in the place where they are. So so, yeah, it's you have to be agnostic about the platform. I think you have to really just think about, okay, well, where the people that I want to talk to? Are? They on facebook, really on Instagram, and the tick tock really somewhere else, and then find them there. Absolutely, and I think it's interesting to see kind of to how how some of these platforms thrive and others don't. Like Tick Tock. I remember when it first came out, I'm like this is vine, like fine, fine, collapsed real quickly, but tick tock is booming and I mean I think part of that is user interface. Part of that, of course, it's just word of mouth, people saying hey, this is, you know, there's a nicer platform, like let's let's get on it. And so, yeah, it's it is. Yeah, I mean it's just it was such a different time, though, when vine was popular. Is So long ago. Like I think the time it wents, which something takes off, is really important to the timing. Yeah, for sure. So so, yeah, you can see and the money, how much money is backed right, also very helpful, and I think that actually might tie in nicely to another question that I want to kind of chat about is, and you can kind of talk both with the brands that you're working with and with indie source as a whole. But when people are starting a business, I think it can be natural that everything is a shining object right, like you see one thing, you're like, I gotta go after that, and then something else comes from the other side you're like wait, no, I gotta go after that, and it's very easy to spread yourself super thin. So what are some of the top things as you're growing a business that you should focus on? Is You're growing at business, you need people, right. So this is under the assumption that you're going to be hiring, and you know you need to hire some point to expand, right whether you hire them as full time or you hire them as contractor or you bring on agencies, it doesn't really matter. So I was thinking about this the other day and I was trying to make it simple because there's a lot of points and the best, the best way I can synthesize, I think what is critical when you're growing a business can be summed up in red man, red man. Okay, so the first step is you have to find the right people. I've learned the hard way. I've hired people that are...

...like not so great, you know, because they're they were cheaper and, Oh my God, like, if I could give any advice to anybody, it's just find good people and don't try to really cheep out on on what you pay them. Obviously there's a limit to how much you can pay them. So it's not always just about, like, you know, paying them any amount, but find the right people, pay them what they're worth and then, like that's you've literally just like eliminated like most of the problems that you would have had. So that's first right people. Second thing he is enroll. You got to get them super stoked on your idea and your vision. You have to enroll them in the thing that you're doing so that they they got the juice to they're excited about it and they're like, oh, man, like I get where what we're doing and why we're making a difference. That's enrolling them. You've in checking with them, have them pitch you on your business. Number three is the next is d delegate. So you have to this is something that every entrepreneur, like, has issues with. Right delegation. ME. Okay, so I want to go in the morning. What do I do? So the question is what? For me is always what can I get rid of? What can I pass off to other people so that they can be empowered to do those things that I need to get done? I always try to say to also to my team now, because I have a I have managers underneath me and my company. So I'm like, I need them to be delegating more, not less. I'm not like trying to put more on the MANAGEOM manager. Need to be delegating. So who can you delegate these different things too? That will get you to your goal. Delegation is critical. So now we have read. The next piece is man so am is for measure. Delegating is completely worthless. If you don't measure the thing. And so some people call them Kpis, but essentially just you have to find a metric or some way to measure whether the thing that you gave somebody in terms of a task or a project, whether it was done to the standard that you want it to be done. So we can come up with lots of examples of that. But make it measurable and make it easy to tell whether they did it or not. A is accountable. So you've delegated it, you've measured it, and then the third part is you know that they did it or they didn't do it. They didn't, you have to hold them accountable for it. And so this is another thing that I often see. People will not hold the person that they're they're hiring accountable to the measure that they create for them. And so what lot. You sort of check in, here's what you aim to do this week, here's what you did, here's what you aim to do this week, here is what you did. Do it in smaller increments and intervals in the beginning, because if you don't, then you sort of like drag things out and you might realize, Oh, this person you know isn't doing it right and I now haven't talked to them in a month. So that's accountability. And then N is never deviate. Like just keep focusing on these things over and over and over again, and you will be able to get your business of the next level. And I think this the reason I wanted to bring this up is because a lot of the people that I work with are...

Solo entrepreneurs. It's just one person and you know, there's only so much you can do if you're one person. You only have so much time and ability, and so this is a way to think about getting to the next level where you have a team of people working for you and with you to create the vision that you want. I could there's like I mean, I can't do any of the things that I want to do without my team. I'm like worthless without them. You know what I mean? And I think most entrepreneurs should think that way, to like build a team that's better than you, that knows things that you don't and can ultimately, whether that's providing a service or product or whatever you want, to build a team around you that can offer something awesome to the world, and so this is the best way that I've sort of synthesized how to make that happen. Yeah, so that's red men love it. Method man, probably a little jealous, but yeah, I know, Love them all. Right, still great, still great. Yeah, I especially like the the delegation aspect and kind of your mindset of like what can I pass on and like it's yeah, it's not meant to give other people more work because you don't want to do it. It's to give them the opportunity to get something done that's going to be better for everyone, so that you can also focus on something to get that done. And it's it's certainly a different, cool thing. I know I have trouble with delegating pretty regularly, I would say, where I'm just like I could just knock this out, but it's like no, like give someone else the opportunity to do it and, yeah, it'll look, probably going to be better. Yeah, like what kinds of things do you try to delegate or have trouble with? Sometimes it's things like, you know, reaching out to other podcast if we're trying to get guests on, or you know like quick little like briefing books or something where I'm like, I kind of know this person already, like I can I can knock this out real quick, when in some cases it's like no, this is giving someone a chance that maybe hasn't done this before to get their feet wet with it and and maybe they'll create a way that is more efficient or, you know, is easier to digest for whoever's going to be looking at it. And so I think it can be easy to kind of get tunnel vision a little bit too of just like Oh, I've done this before, I know how it's done, etc. And then to have someone else kind of give it a look with fresh eyes or like Oh, actually, that that way is much better. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Sometimes it's just other people can do it better than you can't even realize it. Yeah, that I didn't think about that one. That's true, though, and I think it's especially true in covid times too, where we're at home all the time, like very easy to kind of lose sanity, I guess, for lack of a better words sometimes, and so sometimes you know, taken a step away and then coming back and help, but other times you do just need that the second set of eyes on it yeah, exactly. You. It's hard.

It must be really hard during this time to not have other people you know, and so I think building a little team is really, really critical. There's a lot of ways to do that, even with limited resources. But, you know, like getting some other people knocking stuff out for you, and you want to if you're the owner of the company, you want to be focusing on the thing that like really only you can do. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And even, like, even if you're not at a place to build out a whole team like like you're saying, there's ways you can get other people's input and and kind of have like your trusted circle there. Even, yeah, if you're not hiring like forty people at once. Yeah, yeah, I've hired friends. And also, it's a crazy stuff. I mean mine, you know, near my partner, we started this company with no money and we were living on a boat in the Marina. So, like it's not like I'm coming from a place, although I had, I invested a hundred thousand dollars and then I, you know, got this whole team up. Like no, it's scrappy from day one. Let's talk a little more about living on a boat. What was that like? You know, it just rocks back and forth a little bit, but not too much. People are like you get sick like now. You don't get sick. It just makes you fall asleep fast there. Yeah, I guess if you're not going into treacherous waters, you're well, you're in a sweat. Yeah, so it's just stead of you just like rocks you. It's amazing. Highly recommend live board boat living. That does sound very do thing. I do get so sick easily, but gentle rocking I can do. It's just like gets on her. You don't ever have to even leave, you don't have to take the boat out, you just lit, you know, just pect enjoy your time on it. Perfect. Perfect. One other thing that that you've done is kind of pivot a little bit. I hate saying pivot. It just reminds me of Ross from friends, who I don't know if you watched friends, but I used to. Yeah, look that he's he's I'm sorry I have made someone upset the other day because I said Ross is easily the worst of the friends and she was all, no, he just gets a bad rap and I was like it does get it better, maybe, but he's also, he also is the worst, but it's fine, they're they all have their their highs and lows. It's fun. But the during the pandemic, obviously face masks became a super high in demand and still still our high end demand product, and that was something that you added to the the indie source catalog for lack, I don't know if that's the right term, but the indy source catalog. And Yeah, I mean we didn't. The thing is, we didn't really even have a catalog before this. So I wasn't selling any products direct consumer before this. It was just purely away for us to keep going and honestly, I don't even know it's going to happen. It could, it might end up happening again to to shutdowns and stuff like that. But yeah, we pivoted to face masks. We were we were early, so we were able to provide a lot of masks to people before, you know, trying to came in and started spread the market with them. But yeah, we're still selling them and we put together like a really awesome mask. We made sure that it...

...was like effective actually, and and yeah, have a bunch of different designs and have sold them. You know, tens of thousands of them. We're donated tens of thousands of them. In the beginning was really important because service workers and people at hospitals like just didn't have any PPE so, you know, rolling up to a kids hospital and like donating a ton of masks was like really needed at that time, you know, and I also like, like you go to restaurants and like the people. It was crazy at that time, like nobody was wearing masks. So, yeah, we did a bio one, donate one. Kept our employees working and it was a definitely a win win win and allowed us to keep kind of like stable throughout those crazy initial months. Yeah, that's awesome and thank you for making them actually effective. I feel like that when it first, you know, when masks first started kind of becoming mandated and it's like hey, you need a mask to get places. I certain I saw lots of different things pop up where it was just kind of like no, this might not be that good, like it's real thin and right, yeah, not getting the job done exactly. A lot of that, for sure. A lot of shirts over your face. Do you have a favorite among the designs? Um I like the I mean I love the the USA ones it's like, you know, like red, white and Blue Stars, and then we have some cool, like geometric shape ones that we also have a denim one that I like a lot. Yeah, I mean I got all of them. So cop one on Andy Source. We're doing a buy one, get one by one, get one, give one right now on the site because we have this imagery and everything was ethically made in Los Angeles by my team. So none of this is important. Awesome. Yeah, everyone get a mask. They are they are very stylish. I have to say I thank you. Having worn masks with designs and masks without designs, you certainly get a lot more compliments and people are just, I think, generally, a little more nicer to you when you have a fun mask. I don't know, this is a very small sample size, but I feel like I think you're right coming up and be like hey, that's a cool mask. And if it's just like a generic I have a generic red one as well, and people are just like Oh, yeah, I exactly like you can gotta get a coold just just get a cute one, just like mix it up a little bit. Yeah, or stylish one that matches your outfit. Oh that's I still need to work on that. I all right, I'll sell you at Man. Thank you. Thank you. Snap me a picture of whatever you're wearing and also I need the appropriate color mask. Fantastic, fantastic. I know we've got we've got a denim day coming up within our company and in the next month or so, so maybe there's something that that pairs well with a gene jacket. Done, fabulous. All right, and I think that that Segue is pretty nicicely into the top three here, which would have been your top three...

...covid hobbies during this quarantine? Ha Ha. Well, my first, I should make this my first covid hobby, has been raising a child. So I had a davy literally like the day that California announced the pandemic. So I was like you know, and trust me, we had been planning this, so it's not like you know, its just I did this. And so, yeah, he was born read the end of February, and so I've been, you know, raising little boys, which has been definitely a hobby and really, really fun. So that's number one. Number two is I've been growing sprouts because I don't have a whole lot of like son for like real legit vegetables, but I love sprouts, so I have Broccoli sprouts, Alfile for sprouts, you know, just different things like that to keep you going and just like keep you healthy. That's my number two and then my third covid hobby is I've been growing a pretty substantial beard, which you can't see right now because we're on a PODCAST, but I've been focusing on this for many months now and my goal is to have the man bun on the top and a beard that's very long on the bottom. So I've been working on that and it's it's a good hobby for me because it's very passive while I focus on growing my business. The passive hobbies are the greatest ones. So if you not shaved or gotten a haircut since, I guess since having your child, not really know. I mean I did, I guess in the beginning. It's been at least like five or six months. It probably like six months that I haven't shaved and and I'm just shaving the sides of my hair and leaving the top. So I'm really working on that. It sounds impressive. We will have to get a photo and we can can do leave the show tines. Yes, that sounds good. Yeah, because I definitely don't look like the picture that you know, whatever, the headshot that we send out. I saw that the other day. I was like, oh, that's they're going to be disappointed when they see what I really look like. We'll do it before and after. It'll be okay, pravery wonderful for covid after Co Yeah, I commend you on sticking with it. I also went with the I'm not going to get a haircut or shave and I think it lasted about it was longer than it should have been, like the I think the shaving was maybe after about three months. It was just like disgustingly long. So I applaud you for for keeping up with it. It's a coffee pill now you have to take care of it. It's up to some degree. Once your housing wildlife in there, then it's maybe at the time to shave it. So if you're not at that level yet, you're fun. Yeah, yeah, keep a gun. I like when people have it to well, good deal, Zach. Thank you so much for hopping on the PODCAST. If people want to pick up a mask, they want to learn more about indie source at all, that you do. How...

...can they get in touch? Cool. Yeah, Indie sourcecom we have our instagram is indie underscore source. We have youtube if you're interested in starting your online. Is a lot of long form content on there that I think really can get you into it a little bit deeper so you can understand like what what really goes on, and the instagram stuff is good too. We'll be putting out some more educational content here pretty soon. And Yeah, you can call the the number on the site. I got a whole team that can answer your questions, sort of facilitate the process for you and tell you how it goes and we're excited to learn about whatever ideas you have. Fantastic, looking forward to it. Zach curly from indie source. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat and let's end with a Corny joke, like we always do. I've been tried to make it slightly clothing themed. I'm sure you've probably heard this, but I tried buying some camouflage pants the other day. I couldn't find them. Good after today, people, I'm amazing. I love that. That's good. That's good, that's legitimately good.

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